[engine_work] 306 Project

[Rob Turbo 3]

Well the ecu unlocking didn't go as planned, looks like I'll have to send it off to one of those ecu unlocking places and pay through the nose! I'll probably have a go at it on my mates 406 just for the hell of it, but can't see that being of any use if miles couldn't do it with his!

 

I've had a look on service box and there's 3 different part numbers for ecu's on the ES9J4 406's, one for automatic, one for saloons and estates and one for coupe's, so maybe I have to find a coupe to unlock it on (or send it away), which is going to be a bit of a task, looks like I'll end up having to send it away

 

I wonder why coupe's had a different ecu?

[danpug 1]

How exactly do you unlock them? I removed the ecu whilst the engine was running on an auto v6 estate i had, would that have unlocked it?

[Rob Turbo 3]

Yeah that should have unlocked it, the problem with mine is I bought the engine etc after it had been removed, so I need to find a car with the same ecu to put my ecu into and use the transponder in my key to start it, then once running, unplug the ecu and it doesn't lock again unless it's plugged back into a car with the immobiliser still wired in.

[danpug 1]

Ok. Hopefully someone will help you out.

[Rob Turbo 3]

Well, I quit!!

 

A lad with a 406 v6 came today to try unlocking my ecu, no joy, the car is practically finished, just needs the rest of the exhaust putting on which I think is a straight fit now. So the ecu is holding me back, I'm skint so can't get the ecu unlocked or get another ecu that's already unlocked, I'm loosing interest all together now, nearly ready to break it for parts.

[All Praise The GTI 3]

dont give up mate. i know someone with two v6s and hes got an unlocked ecu il see if hes willing to sell it or lend it to me for you lol. i think they pro bodged one with a live feed to make the car start then he got one unlocked properly

il try find out for you

[Rob Turbo 3]

Now the engine needs to come back out, it seems the bulkhead wasn't strong enough to hold the clutch master cylinder in place, I've just finished putting it all back on after I found there was air in it, gave it a quick press and the master cylinder has shot out into the engine bay, so I now have to take the engine back out to weld a plate into the bulkhead.

 

One more problem and I'm taking a hammer to it, this engine had better be bloody worth it, I could have had the car back on the road weeks ago if I just put another xu engine in.

[Goliath 94]

It will be well worth it im sure. get some pics up of the bulk head, interested to see which bit failed.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I've put my dummy back in now

 

I'm taking the engine out tomorrow, or at least half out, just so I have enough room to get my hands in with the welder, then make the hole bigger from inside, cut the 406 pedal box to get the original clutch master cylinder mount, weld that to the bulkhead, then put it all back together.

 

I don't want to take the engine right out because I'm expecting (hoping) an unlocked ecu from Jackherer turning up tomorrow and want to try it out straight away! Once I hear the sweet sound of a v6 no problem will be big enough to stop me finishing it!!

[Rob Turbo 3]

The unlocked ecu came today, still won't start, the pump doesn't come on at all, there's 12v getting to the coil pack with the ignition on, all the lives, switched lives and earths to the ecu and relays are connected. When the ignition is turned on the engine management light blinks then stays on, exactly the same as it did with the other ecu.

 

I'm stumped now!

[Goliath 94]

So your 100% sure its an unlocked ECU? What is the engine lacking? fuel or spark? If its just fuel you could hard wire the pump onto a swatch on the dash and just flick it on everytime you start it, as for the management light I have no idea. I hate engine electrics and ECU's.

[welshpug 1,622]

if you have 12v at the coils etc you should have it at the fuel pump, try giving it a direct live and give it a crank.

 

having the management light on is normal, they don't go out till the engine starts.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I've been told it's 100% definitely unlocked by jackherer, who I bought it off, and I have no reason to doubt him. I'd still not turn down a go with your ecu though!

 

It's got no fuel or spark, I've earthed a pin on the relay that turned the pump on, still wouldn't start though.

 

I know that the management light should be on, but it comes on, goes off, then comes back on quickly when I turn the ignition on, which I'm not sure is right, usually I've just seen them come on and stay on, not blink first.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Rob Turbo

[welshpug 1,622]

possible lack of crank signal?

[Rob Turbo 3]

I've checked the crank sensor with a multimeter, there's 1.3-1.5v ac while cranking, but the pump doesn't prime when the ignition is switched on either.

 

The bloke I got the engine off is sending me a diagnostic connector with a few inches of wire on the back so I'll be able to wire it up to the ecu and plug my diagnostic equipment into it and hopefully it will at least give me an idea of the problem.

[taylorspug 7]

Did it have an inline inertia switch like the 306 GTI6 loom? Only reason i ask is ive recently had a very similar problem with a Xsara VTS loom, turned out the trigger wire for the inertia switch ran into the car through the mulitplug, and i hadnt connected it up (serves me right wiring it up without a diagram!). Once connected, relay clicked, fuel pump primed and it fired straight away.

 

Initially i also suspected a locked ECU as i couldnt find fault with the wiring.

[Rob Turbo 3]

According to the wiring diagrams I have, the inertia switch is inline with the fuel pump, so I have it going straight to the pump.

 

Although my wiring diagrams for the gti6 show the same thing, so maybe the diagrams I have are all wrong??

[Rob Turbo 3]

Anyone want a 306 v6 that won't run? Or any parts from one? It's going, I've had enough, I refuse to spend anymore money on it, I've spent enough already and it's still not playing. I'm off to search ebay for a cheap car to get me about.

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

give +12v to the fuel pump manually and you're sorted, "only" have to get the spark then,

but when you get spark you will have sorted out the fuel pump problem too anyway.

 

have you tried a different crank sensor just to make sure it's working correctly? i can't

think of anything else, except from something wiring-related that could be the cause.

 

not into V6's so i can't help you with more details, but i hope you'll manage to sort it out

and not quit the project .

[westy 0]

Are there not any wiring experts near Rob that could help him out? It'd be such a shame to see this go to pot

[M@tt 77]

Rob's a bit of a whizz with the old wiring diagrams which is why it must be so frustrating.

 

Rob is the CPS from the V6? i just wondered if perhaps it was off another Peugeot and maybe it's not the right depth so prehaps its not generating an appropriate pulse?? Just a thought

 

Have you wapped relays round just incase one of them is knackered?, at least one is working as you are getting switched live at the coils. but might be worht a quick check.

 

I've been having a study of the wiring diagrams this morning and have the noted the follwoing

 

1st dbl relay

Switched live should turn provide 12v to coil and also to ECU from Pin 6 of Dbl Relay1 to ECU pin 27

with ECU plugged in does pin 10 go to earth?

 

2nd dbl relay

2nd relay should have perm 12v to following pins 2,11,14,8,15

2nd relay pins 3 and 36 should pull to earth whilst cranking (get 12v across them), could you check this with multimeter

Edited January 26, 2009 by M@tt

[Rob Turbo 3]

I'll have another look over it tonight, I'm just on my dinner break at the minute.

 

The CPS is the original one from the v6, I'm going to try the one from the turbo engine tonight if I can get at it, it's rather tight to get at on the v6!

[Rob Turbo 3]

Right, pin 6 of relay 1 gives 12v to ecu pin 27 and pin 13 of relay 1 gives the coilpack 12v when the ignition is on. With the ecu plugged in and the ignition on, pin 10 of relay 1 has around 4-5v, I wouldn't have thought that would have any power though because it gets it's feed from pin 9 of relay 2, which had no power at all, if it did, the pump would also be on. Pins 4, 5, 6 and 13 of relay 2 all have 12v with the ignition on, which supplies the injectors, pin 37 on the ecu, canister purge valve, ICV and the intake manifold heater.

 

While cranking, pin 7 of relay 2 drops to around 6-7v (from 12v with the ignition on, but not cranking) but the battery was almost flat when I got round to testing that. Pin 10 of relay 2 has nothing either with the ignition on or cranking, so it's not even attempting to turn the pump on.

 

I've tried every combination of the 3 relays I have, all seem to work fine because I get the same results every time. I've swapped the CPS for the one off the turbo engine, first I checked it was the same length and everything and it was, but again, no joy.

 

When I get access to my parents' car, if it's not too late, I'm off to halfords for a new battery, think I'm gonna go for a calcium one for a 306 td for that extra bit of umph!

 

Any more suggestions? This seems a lot like a locked ecu to me.

[danpug 1]

If you want Rob you can try my ecu as well.

[Goliath 94]

I have just got hold of a cd which has a good load of info on it, It lists all the ECU pins with discriptions and has some sort of wiring diagram. Let me know if it could be of use to you although it sounds like you know what most of the pins do.....

 

It will start one day!