[engine_work] Project Sarty

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

You WILL need an aftermarket Mocal, or even a std 1900 8v air to oil cooler. My old hybrid engine ran a lot of oil temp when thrashing and it even had the alloy finned sump. Trust me on this one, keep the oil coola nd you are winning, also one less set of coolant pipes.

 

Maxi

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

OK Maxi & thanks. That's interesting and means I've had that recommendation twice - once from Jonnie 205 & now you. Sandy said the water-oil cooler is quite effective, also in keeping the oil warm. Got a decision to make then.

 

Also I have no idea how the 8v air to oil cooler connects, so a little steerage would be appreciated. Anyone got one for sale so I can weigh up the options? This means (and it'll be mentioned in my for sale listing) that my water-oil cooler could be for sale or exchange for an air-oil jobbie.

 

NEW BIT - QUESTIONS REGARDING S16 BLOCK:

Can someone please just identify the items or what connects to the locations pointed out by my pen in pictures 1-5 below?

 

1 -

2 -

3 -

4 -

5 - (I believe this screws into the block somewhere as an oil temp sender perhaps??? it has a little loop of fine wire at the end)

 

Question: Does the S16 dipstick tube attach the back of the block, just inboard of the water distribution union? And further to that, its supporting bracket up the tube attaches to what?

 

Question: When people talk about lengthening the lower engine mount to tilt the engine a tad to get bulkhead/downpipe clearance, does anyone do this by placing a spacer plate between the block and the lower engine mount/driveshaft intermediate bearing casting? Just an idea.

 

 

Thanks for your help everybody.

Edited February 12, 2008 by DrSarty

[Super Josh 4]

Rich, The bit in your last piccy is an oil level sensor, so not needed in your case. Can't help with the other bits as I'm not familiar with S16 lumps.

 

 

Josh

[welshpug 1,627]

1, PAS pump bracket dowel

 

2, IIRC the oil filler.

 

 

if you require further assistance I can take pictures of the engine from my ZX16v, its sat on an engine stand in mum's workshop with most ancillaries still attached.

 

the dipstick tube support is bolted under one of the cam cover bolts.

 

you can't space the intermediate driveshaft housing/lower mounting out as the driveshaft goes through it and has to stay parallel to the differential.

Edited February 12, 2008 by welshpug

[James_R 3]

oil dipstick does go in sort of a similar place to the 8v ones, over the back to the left (as you look at the front)

 

As for oil temps, got with what you've got and keep an eye on the temp if it needs changing do it if not then don't. cheaper that way, and better to have warm oil when you run it on

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

@Josh:

 

Thanks for your answer - that'll be for sale then. I tried to bell you over the weekend for a chat and maybe a curry meet up - but (as ever) you never answered.

 

 

@ James R:

 

Thanks to you too matey. That's 2-2 now, water versus air oil cooling. Nice approach too.

Edited February 12, 2008 by DrSarty

[Anthony 1,000]

Just to complete the above, 3. is a secondary location to connect the oil pressure sender/switch to (into main oil gallery) and 4. is a breather connection.

[kate205gti 4]

let me know what u decide - am watching u try it first lol

 

when next curry night?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

let me know what u decide - am watching u try it first lol

 

when next curry night?

 

Oh brilliant! No pressure then.

 

Well we could have a rush curry tomorrow night as it's my 37th birthday.

 

Anthony & Welshpug - Thanks geysers for concise (and f&*kin' prompt) answers. WP that photo will help a great deal. Snap away chief!

 

Hmm, so as my block already has an oil pressure sensor fitted (a white plastic round thing with a socket for a single male spade connector, just above the current oil cooler/filter combo), which location is best?

 

If I use one and not the other, do I either bung the unused hole with a bolt or fit an oil pressure warning light sender?

Edited February 12, 2008 by DrSarty

[Anthony 1,000]

Hmm, so as my block already has an oil pressure sensor fitted (a white plastic round thing with a socket for a single male spade connector, just above the current oil cooler/filter combo), which location is best?

 

If I use one and not the other, do I either bung the unused hole with a bolt or fit an oil pressure warning light?

Doesn't really matter which location you use - they both go into the same oil gallery.

 

Personally I say definately fit a oil pressure warning light as well as the gauge - if nothing else it's a good backup so you know whether you really have no oil pressure or whether the gauge is telling fibs, and not only that, but generally a big red light in the middle of the dash is more obvious when you're not paying attention than a gauge that's dropped to zero.

 

Oh, and are you sure that it's a pressure sender you've got currently, rather than the low-pressure switch? All the iron-block engines had a switch, but not many had a gauge sender fitted as standard...

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Oh, and are you sure that it's a pressure sender you've got currently, rather than the low-pressure switch? All the iron-block engines had a switch, but not many had a gauge sender fitted as standard...

 

No I'm not sure Anthony.

 

I totally agree. This is a serious but simple issue so I will perhaps buy a brand new one of each, i.e. an oil pressure (to guage) sender AND a low oil pressure (to light on dash) warning switch. This will ensure that both work.

 

So, does anyone have these part numbers to hand (or these parts to sell) and can I whack them into the two holes we've mentioned, which I will show together on a photo later?

Edited February 12, 2008 by DrSarty

[willxs 0]

Pic

 

Not the most helpful pic but gives a small idea to what goes where regarding the oil pipes, the taller one plumbs into the bottom of the oil filler (does on mine anyway) HTH

 

Cheers, Will

[Emmy Seize 8]

You´ve got the cylinders numbered the wrong way round.

 

Can´t see anything wrong with the cooling diagram. I´d leave the bleed-screws in place, though. Air lock is nothing you´d want on a freshly rebuilt engine.

 

 

As for the oil cooling issue, I would stick to the current setup.

 

In theory, liquid to liquid heat-exchange is superior to the liquid to air variant.

 

In practice, I couldn´t find any disadvantages doing flat-out runs on german motorways for hours.

 

An additional oilcooler could always be fitted with a sandwich plate (or even in place of the current one) between oilfilter and block.

 

Problem is, that you will need a thermostat as well as running with temperatures below optimum will be just as bad.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

You´ve got the cylinders numbered the wrong way round.

 

Ermmm...I'm sure I haven't. Isn't this the oddity about Pugs being numbered 1-4 from the clutch end, which is why soooo many people (me incl) get the firing order wrong? {Waits to be dressed down }

 

Excellent answers BTW too. Cheers. Seems I'm staying water for now. Don't take it personally Maxi or Jonnie205, but I will reserve the future option to go air cooled. And I still would like your oil vapour breathing advice following Mattsav's warning.

 

Rich

Edited February 12, 2008 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,627]

SODS LAW!!!! got a few shots and the battery dies cold weather sucks battery life!

 

pic 3, there is indeed a pressure switch here, the pressure sender is nearer to the oil filter (picture as soon as batteries re-charged, cant find the spare set)

 

the engine I have came out of a ZX so the pressure gauge was in the dash, my 405 has the same engine, and doesn't have a pressure gauge, however IIRC the sender is still fitted!

 

I have seen on many blocks that some of the holes are blanked, i.e on the S16 the oil level is on the back, on the gti6 its on the front with the rear hole blanked.

 

I would check the rear of the block firstly, if there's a hole not blanked and you dont wish to use the level sender you require the following to plug the hole (listed the the J4RS as it doesnt use this hole)

 

0163 90 REDUCER - INJECTION XU10J4RS 5.98 GBP

0163 91 PLUG TOWBALL - INJECTION XU10J4RS 1.53 GBP

0164 39 RING-SEAL 9,25X1,78 - INJECTION XU10J4RS 0.94 GBP

 

seeing the price of that little lot I'd be tempted to bung it back in the hole for now

[welshpug 1,627]

oh BTW you are correct Rich, PSA seem to be in the minority and go from the clutch end not timing end.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

0163 90 REDUCER - INJECTION XU10J4RS 5.98 GBP

0163 91 PLUG TOWBALL - INJECTION XU10J4RS 1.53 GBP

0164 39 RING-SEAL 9,25X1,78 - INJECTION XU10J4RS 0.94 GBP

 

seeing the price of that little lot I'd be tempted to bung it back in the hole for now

 

Brilliant stuff and yes; I'll just saw off the long bit of the oil level sender I have and snip off the wires to save weight and money .

 

And for future reference and ease of discussion, I will use the following terminology for these bast£rd oil pressure connections:

 

OIL PRESSURE SENDER - goes to gauge and gives a reading

OIL PRESSURE SWITCH - goes to warning light and only activates when oil pressure too low

Edited February 12, 2008 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,627]

113182 OIL PRES SWITCH 6.95 GBP

 

113171 SENDING UNIT 59.58 GBP

 

 

 

what are your thoughts on a windage tray? probably not needed if you are going for a baffled sump but I found the part number and price for the gti6 unit

 

104717 PANEL 7.63 GBP

 

gti6 uses this and a single baffle with a trap door like the S16 has

Edited February 12, 2008 by welshpug

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

113171 SENDING UNIT 59.58 GBP

 

Luckily, it seems the oil pressure 'item' in my block already is this 'Sending Unit', part no. 1131 71. Let's hope it works.

 

what are your thoughts on a windage tray?

 

Already in there dude, along with my sump spacer and XU10 baffled sump.

[Emmy Seize 8]

Ermmm...I'm sure I haven't.

 

Of course you haven´t!

 

It´s just a very popular joke to annoy the apprentice over here (hence the smiley).

 

Doesn´t work in English, obviously......

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Doesn´t work in English, obviously......

 

I bite too easy .

 

Anyway. For all the non-PugGods who are using this as a reference - because I did promise to put everything in here - here is a bit more clarification on the oil system monitoring, warning and vapour rebreathing.

 

Digging through my older photos of my S16 block before it went away, it was easy to see where some items were originally sited. So sorry for asking but hey...

 

Here's a summary for the whole oil system.

 

MIAMISTU'S ON-LINE XU10J4 OIL SYSTEM (No-vapour pipes) DIAGRAM

 

HERE'S MY HIGHLIGHTING OF THE 3 OIL SYSTEM SENSORS (XU10J4):

Green - Connects to oil pressure warning light, what I call 'switch' - Pug info: 'Oil Pressure Switch' Part no. 1131 82 with 'Plug Seal' 0164-30

Red - Connects to oil pressure gauge, what I call 'sender' - Pug info: 'Sending Unit' Part no. 1131 71

Blue - Connects to oil temp gauge, what I'll now call 'OT sender' - Pug info 'Temperature' Part no. 1131 78

 

After wading through many diagrams, what I'd like to know is whether the other 'switch' and 'sender', part nos. 1131 14 & 1131 69 from the 8 valve models would work (I reckon they would), and whether they are cheaper for some reason.

 

HERE'S THE S16 OIL VAPOUR SYSTEM

 

HERE IS THE OIL LEVEL SENSOR - Fitted to the rear of the block inner most, now no longer required. An expensive 'bung' .

 

FINALLY...the original photo showing where the 'sender' and 'switch' were fitted (and a new one of the 'sender' in the spanking new engine).

 

You'll notice that there aren't the 2 adjacent locations in the block for these two items according to the diagrams (and my old alloy XU9 block as I remember), they are seperated and ringed in red and green respectively, not reflecting the exploded diagram at all.

Edited February 12, 2008 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,627]

IIRC the 2 senders/switches are common to most engines and have the same part numbers, certainly the few engines that I did check on servicebox did, what matters most is the thread sizes, both senders use the same thread.

 

the main difference between early and later senders/switches is the plug type, i.e male spade on older ones and Junior timer type on later ones, as pictured.

 

worth noting and I'm not sure if you realise but the senders/switches should come with the sealing rings so you dont need to order additional ones.

Edited February 12, 2008 by welshpug

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

{A} both senders use the same thread.

 

the main difference between early and later senders/switches is the plug type, i.e male spade on older ones and Junior timer type on later ones, as pictured.

 

Thanks again WP; you are Quickdraw McGraw with replies today aren't you!

 

{A} That's could IF the other sender is a lot less than £60!

 

{B} What I'll be needing then to make up a professional loom - these guys. What's the difference between Junior Timer & Junior Power Timer then?

Edited February 12, 2008 by DrSarty

[vern 0]

I used a sump plug to fill the level sensor hole.

[welshpug 1,627]

ahh, umm.....

 

I haven't got a job at the moment so I have been spending far too long on here interspersed with online job searches

 

the last pic you posted, that is the more expensive of the two senders so you don't need to buy another, saved you £60 there

 

with the 2 types of plugs its just the securing method that differs (they both fit the same type of senders/components), one is like the older type as used on the S16+205's, a bit fiddly to remove and often break, the Junior power timer plugs you just depress the metal spring clip rather than pull it off.

 

junior timer connector

 

Junior power timer connector -