[engine_work] Project Sarty

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

'Can' being the operative word. I have recently reshelled my friends S16 with a maniflow and it fitted fine in the old shell but hits the bulkhead in the new one.

 

This 'can' pampers to my military approach of making a contingency plan. When my little buddies pile round wielding trolley jacks, rubber gloves & BFO hammers to help me drop the engine in, I'm wanting to avoid any fouling issues that would grind work to a halt. I didn't wanna take the risk!

 

This is why in advance I'm prep'ing the engine bay to receive a taller engine, i.e. making my tunnel bigger (ooer) and tilting the master cylinder.

 

I bought my heat reflecting panel today for £12, and may also get from the same supplier some exhaust wrap and steel ties IF he'll give a one off shipping price rather than one for each item, as he's an eBay shop with pretty good pricing. It's only the accumulation of P&P that gets costly. I thought the careful shaping job, the rust prevention and heat shielding treatment PLUS the exhaust wrap would make a top job, yielding a cooler engine bay and cabin, less noise and potentially a tad more performance.

 

We shall see I suppose.

[Super Josh 4]

Rich, be careful wrapping a mild steel manifold. It can trap the moisture and people have posted up pictures of them after they have rotted through.

 

 

Josh

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Rich, be careful wrapping a mild steel manifold. It can trap the moisture and people have posted up pictures of them after they have rotted through.

Josh

 

 

That's fair advice, and given my penchant for remembering detail, I too had read about that and been a little wary about using it.

 

The Maniflow downpipe/manifold I gather is mild steel then? The moisture trapping thing had me worried straight away as you are supposed to soak the wrap first before you even apply it!! Not a good start on that front.

 

I mean how bad is this problem really. I assume we're not talking here about accumulated moisture as it wouldn't survive the heat, just evaporating. I gather we're talking condensation on cold evenings/mornings sitting there rotting the metal? Does the quality (read: tightness) of the wrapping have any bearing on how bad this problem is? I intend to do it mega tight BTW.

 

Also, what if I were to treat the metal first, i.e. clean up, rust proof with HT paint and then wrap?

[welshpug 1,627]

could always get it ceramic coated, check what material its being made from first though.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

could always get it ceramic coated, check what material its being made from first though.

 

At £300! Not on your nelly. I did ask; even at friend prices.

[welshpug 1,627]

crikey I didnt think it would be that much.

 

actually I think you should be able to get it a fair bit cheaper, here's a link from Sean McKeown's thread on PSOOC; http://www.camcoat.u-net.com/Exhtprices2002.htm tis a bit out of date so worth dropping them a line.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Yes the Manifold will foul, one thing Maniflow & Reseller's don;t say even thou I'm sure they list it fitting both as the flange is universal,

 

As said don;t wrap the manifold as it will 'scale' just like your skin peeling really, give it 2 yr's and you'll need a new one.

[tom_m 0]

At £300! Not on your nelly. I did ask; even at friend prices.

 

£300 quid? who have you been asking? Camcoat will do a full tubular 4 branch with three coats inside and out for £160!

 

Camcaot

 

Price List

 

you can also buy this stuff buy the tin from tweeks if you fancy diy. i'm experimenting with it on my turbo and manifold.

Edited March 7, 2008 by tom_m

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I regret to say that I didn't see the recommendations to NOT wrap the exhaust until I was obliged to buy them through this guy on eBay . However, I have a plan. I will do it anyway (and Miles will no doubt curse at me), BUT, the Maniflow is quite old anyway, and not only am I going to wrap it extremely well, but I have a next engine upgrade planned in about 18mths to 2 years, involving a GTi6 head with new PeterT cam(s) and ITBs complete with a '6 exhaust.

 

The '6 exhaust is a sight to behold and I believe rather good, and I can cope with 2 years on the current one. The new exhaust WILL however definately get ceramic coated.

 

Below, a few pics of the engine bay transformation & the exhaust tunnel, together with that favourite topic 'individual coils' ( ) which were quite an engineering challenge to mount to the strut brace. This is the rough build & will be stripped again, treated and metal work sprayed complete (to match the car), and then bolted up again with threadlock.

 

For the bracketry I used imagination. B&Q steel 15x2mm measured, cut & drilled, fixed with Diamond Back (yes BMX) seat pole clamps. This gave me nice allen key bolts all round to make it look less of a bodge. Should look good cleaned and cherry red.

 

 

Rich

Edited March 7, 2008 by DrSarty

[Bonzai 2]

those bike clips are just the ticket. nice work

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Ive never understood the logic of mounting coil packs remotely to the engine. Just think, everytime your engine moves, the HT lead is being waggled/moved/vibrated with one end being rigid and the other moving with the engine. Surely this leads to premature lead failure??? Just seems a bit of logic to me.

 

Maxi

Edited March 8, 2008 by jackherer

[base-1 17]

Not really, unless you have knackered soft engine mounts and rubbish stiff leads

 

They still move when the engine moves even if the coil is attached to the engine

[welshpug 1,627]

not if they're coil on plug, like these engines normally have.

 

is there anything preventing the use of the original items in conversions?

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

standard ones are unrealiable enough for standard engines...

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I'm REALLY grateful for EVERYONE'S comments & input; positive or critical. I mean that. I'm certainly no engineer; but am learning a great deal by doing as much of this as I can myself. I'm experimenting with some things but I'm sure most of it has been done before.

 

Maxi: I'm glad you're still interested enough to pose questions as I respect your experience and you do have a point. I certainly remember our impromptu race/burn up with that Integra . He'll get a shock next time; fancy a spin?

 

I have Bosch silicon leads now (instead of the Magnecors - too much money) and I certainly would hope that they can cope with the flexing they will have to cope with. But I don't think it'll be that much as I have group N turret mounts, a soild lower mount and just about to get a group N top mount. The leads are short, but won't be taught at all. However we shall see won't we?

 

WP - I can't see why original S16/'6 coil packs couldn't be used, but don't know about COP as maybe the Mi head won't accept them (as I know the S16 head, or at least cam cover is different to accommodate them). But ignition components with this family of engines seem to be the weakest point from what I've gleened on this forum, so it made sense to start fresh.

 

Here's today's work in the background. The gearbox is finished **THANKS MILES**, so it's just a case of getting it and bangin' it in with the engine.

 

The bay is prep'd, red and shiny. Fuel lines and 106GTi fuel filter in and ready, tunnel reshaped (awaiting heat reflective mat) and loom, vacuum pipe and brake pipes and been cleaned and seriously tidied and rerouted. You will see very soon; it's a big difference.

 

 

Holes in the plug cover ready for special HT lead grommets and some hosing is now on the engine (for oil cooler). Remaining cooling outlets visible: off stat - large to rad, medium to top heater matrix hose - off rear union - 1 to bottom heater matrix hose & the other to my new expansion tank from an ancient BMW (with Pug original pressure cap ) which will sit like Hilgie's on the bulkhead near the servo. This frees up loads of room for the oil catch tank and airbox where the battery used to be.

 

Engine still looks lifeless without inlet. That's in the house with me now having it's sensor loom made up

 

 

Again, thanks for all of your comments and support.

Edited March 8, 2008 by DrSarty

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

looking good.

 

can you remind me the spec of the engine again please? Mi16 head onto which bottom end? bore size stroke etc... assume GTi-6 inlet?

 

Thanks.

Henry.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

looking good.

 

can you remind me the spec of the engine again please? Mi16 head onto which bottom end? bore size stroke etc... assume GTi-6 inlet?

 

Thanks.

Henry.

 

Hi Hen.

 

2.2 litre (2187cc) displacement via S16 block bored to 87mm matched with XU11 diesel crank (92mm stroke) on custom (Wiseco) forged pistons (gudgeon pin height adjusted to match).

 

Mi16 head with triple cut valve seats & valves unshrouded (combustion chamber opened to 87mm to match bore); light head skim and block decked to match - GTi6 3 layer steel gasket. 1.9GTi gearbox refurbed with TranX plate diff. Refurbed 309GTi rear beam with -30 Eibachs and poly bush wishbones on the front.

 

Maniflow 4-2-1 exhaust manifold with Powerflow 2.25in exhaust. GTi6 inlet manifold & TB onto big FO Volvo airbox with twin cold air pressure feeds. GM LS1 individual coils running Megasquirt II V3 wasted spark and fueling.

 

Made the loom today.

Edited March 9, 2008 by DrSarty

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

excellent its amazing what combos you can do with pug (and volvo ) parts.

 

If my engine lets go hopefully the head will be saved and tweaked to suit an 87mm bottom end. Will be very interested to see how you get on with the diesel crank, I was thinking of an 88mm Mi crank but the extra capacity is just to tempting.

good to see power figures on the 6 inlet as well, I was thinking of going emerald with GTi-6 injectors and inlet to save some money over TB's perhaps when u upgrade to TBs i can purchase your inlet

 

very nice project and top marks for the documentation of the whole thing.

 

henry.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Rich, can you take some pictures of the Volvo airbox, pref holding it in the engine bay to give some idea of proportions?

 

Ta

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Soon Steve. I bought some ali from B&Q yesterday to fashion a plate for the airbox to sit on, on top of the now redundant battery mount.

 

The Volvo BMF airbox is having to sit right back where the expansion tank used to be to give bonnet clearance, but it's a work of Swedish art I'm telling ya! It did require Sarty surgery too .

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Well first off, I think I'm old & bold enough to admit when I've been a plank. Why oh why did I bother with that exhaust wrap stuff? It's s*ite!! OK OK it must 'function', but it is sooooo awkward, itchy, messy and undoubtedly too short, for your cash outlay and effort you'd be better off putting it towards some pucker ceramic coating.

 

The metal ties are dogs*it and are nearly impossible to get to fit the exhaust. The wrap stuff frays and falls apart and as it's soaked it flicks water everywhere as you try and eek it round every bend, REMEMBERING that you're gonna need to get to the exhaust stud nuts, which is bad enough as it is on a steeply angled engine like 'ours'.

 

Add all of the application woes and the undoubtedly shorter lifespan of the exhaust due to corrosion, and all in all - unless it's free - it's pump! Don't use it! Save up; get ceramic.

 

And breathe.

 

Recent testing of TPS pins. Highly accurate equipment and a steady hand needed for this .

 

 

I've also found that the much earlier image I posted of MegaManual's suggested IAC (stepper motor) connections for the GTi6 idle control valve is option (a) and spot on accurate. I'll post it again later along with my complete loom diagram.

 

And the GTi6 inlet now matches the gorgeousness of the rest of the engine.

 

 

This bit is labour intensive but rewarding. Just a wire brush attachment on a power drill, a tack cloth wipe, some masking and B&Q Plastikote silver (the rest of the tin ready for the gearbox which Miles has finished lovin').

 

Rich

Edited March 10, 2008 by DrSarty

[jackherer 543]

Made the loom today.

 

got any pics?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

got any pics?

 

Well I don't know how much this'll help, but it's a talk through and few pics of what I did. There aren't any loom pics persay because it'll just look like any other loom, so here's an explanation to help me understand what I've done, and everyone else (I hope at any level of competance) see what I've been up to these rainy, windy evenings.

 

WIRES TO GO THROUGH THE BULKHEAD:

 

- MS2v3 (DIYAutotune.com) pre-made loom complete. ECU located in glovebox or under passenger seat and entering engine bay via grommet near bonnet release. (Mine's gone now as I have bonnet pins).

 

- Seperate or via brown multi-plugs 12v switched live, which once in the engine bay needs to tee off to 3 (or 4 if you have a fan override switch) places:

 

a} Main system relay (which has a built in diode to prevent voltage spike damage to ECU) at switching pin 86

b} Fuel pump & lambda probe relay at switching pin 86

c} Coil pack(s)

*option* d} Fan override relay at switching pin 86

 

- Brown multi-plug wires:

1} Starter crank to solenoid

2} Alternator charging light to alternator

3} Reverse light to rev lt switch on gearbox

4} Rev counter signal **source of signal via diode bridge from LS1 coil circuit to be confirmed**

5) Oil pressure switch (eng block)

6) Oil pressure sender (eng block)

7) Coolant temp sender (stat)

8) Coolant temp hi wng light (stat)

9) Oil temp sender (sump)

 

- MAP sensor tube tee'd off manifold/vacuum to fuel pressure regulator

 

- Additional LS1 coil packs earth pin B via capacitor (shown on below diagram) to ECU case

 

WHAT TO CONNECT TO WHAT:

 

The MS loom black wire needs to go to a main system earth (in my case a bolt on the gearbox which also has a huge earth strap to the chassis via a battery tray bolt, all cleaned and rust prevented of course). Also to this earth bolt goes:

 

i} Main relay at switching pin 85

ii} Inlet Air Temp (IAT) sensor earth wire (#if not earthed through its own body)

iii} TPS (pin 1 on GTi6 TPS)

iv} Coolant temp for ECU sensor (#)

v} LS1 coils shared earth

vi} Lambda probe earth (#)

vii} Cooling fan earth

 

Idle control valve (GTi6 IAC-stepper motor):

This diagram from MS is correct, and goes straight to the 4 dedicated wires in the MS loom via 4 pin plug into ICV.

 

LS 1 coil wiring. Note 4 pin plugs but 5 wires needed on their loom - 1 x earth 1 x 12v switched power 2 x ECU triggers (from MS loom) & 1 x ECU case capacitor'd earth.

 

Power distribution with some MS connections shown:{The red stars show MS loom connections}

 

I bought 3 relays and a 6 way fuse box from VWP to do this, and the power distribution box with 4 main fuses in - 20amp for main system (dioded) relay, 2 for fans & 1 for pug original power ancil plug (like lights etc) came from a car in the breakers yard, accepting a huge 4gauge 35mm^2 cable from the battery in the 205's boot.

 

Throttle Position Switch (TPS):

 

Josh's help earlier was spot on, except the pins were called A,B & C. Just change these for 1,2 & 3 on the TPS and you're laughin'.

 

Pins:

1) Earth

2) 5v ref (wire in MS loom)

3) ECU signal (wire in MS loom)

 

Fly-off leads off/into the MS loom:

The MS loom is extremely well made and clearly labelled. What I've done is isolate components such as the throttle body (TB) with connectors such that it can be removed leaving the loom in place. This was done by IAT earth joining TPS earth, and then IAT signal & the 2 other TPS wires going to 4 pins on an 8pin plug (which is one of two that fit into a 16pin connector) i.e. I turned 5 wires into 4. Shown here:

 

Green is the IAT (2 wires)

Turquoise is the TPS (3 wires)

Red is the ICV connector (4 wires)

Yellow is a cheeky 16 pin (twin 8 pin) connector - all will be shielded and waterproofed!

 

The other 4 pins on the 8pin plug are the 4 required for the IAC which are clearly labelled on the MS loom, and using the above IAC diagram go to the 4 pin plug (I got mine off a 306 diesel) into the IAC. This leaves me with another 8pin plug (which goes into the main 16pin plug) for use with things like ECU power, lambda signal etc etc.

 

Power for the injectors (both fused 5A as shown in the above huge diagram) tees alongside the MS loom via a 2 pin plug and joins the 2 MS inj trigger wires. The injector wires a permanently part of the loom now, with just power tapping in via this 2 pin plug.

 

It's the same affair with the LS1 coils. They need an earth and a switched live 12v, which via a 2 pin connector tee alongside the MS loom.

 

I really have no idea if this is any use, but drawing ONE diagram to cover everything is a nightmare. Hence a few pictures and a verbal wander through it. If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask.

Edited March 11, 2008 by DrSarty

[Super Josh 4]

i} Main relay at switching pin 85

ii} Inlet Air Temp (IAT) sensor earth wire (#if not earthed through its own body)

iii} TPS (pin 1 on GTi6 TPS)

iv} Coolant temp for ECU sensor (#)

v} LS1 coils shared earth

vi} Lambda probe earth (#)

vii} Cooling fan earth

 

Rich, be careful with the Lambda connections. It's another low voltage signal (less than 1V on a standard narrow band probe), so this is screened in a similar way to the CAS signal. Just make sure that the screen is only earthed at the ECU, again to prevent a ground loop. Obviously the supply to the heater element isn't a problem. Assume that you are using a Wideband probe? How many pins does it have?

 

 

 

Josh

[jackherer 543]

Well I don't know how much this'll help, but it's a talk through and few pics of what I did.

 

TBH I just wanted to see a pic of a loom with some plugs attached to motivate me into doing mine

 

Nice job Rich, I like the multiplugs dividing the loom into logical sections. Have you bought loads of junior power timer connectors for it? If so they must have added up to a fair amount? I'm considering cutting the plugs and a short length of wire from a gti6 loom I have and adding multiplugs to attach it to my diyautotune loom now...