[engine_work] Project Sarty

[vern 0]

Rich, be careful with the Lambda connections. It's another low voltage signal (less than 1V on a standard narrow band probe), so this is screened in a similar way to the CAS signal. Just make sure that the screen is only earthed at the ECU, again to prevent a ground loop. Obviously the supply to the heater element isn't a problem. Assume that you are using a Wideband probe? How many pins does it have?

Josh

This is what needs carefull setting up on the Innovate LC1 the earths have to be just right, or else you get very odd readings. Like I posted earlier, use the Forum link, it will help you out no end as the instructions can be a bit vague.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Thanks Vern & Josh for ample warning on the lambda set-up. I haven't digested anything to do with it just yet, other than that the MS expects one input from the probe/controller. The earth I was referring to going to the main system earth IS the heater element earth.

 

It would seem regarding this (LC1), the CAS (crank angle (flywheel) sensor) AND the LS1 coils I ought to have a local ECU earth pin to its own chassis as has been advised here to protect prone to interference, low voltage circuits.

 

Kieran: most of the connectors quite frankly were robbed from cars in breaker's yards, as the junior timer connectors are on everything. You need to check the inner locating (read: idiot) splines to make sure you have matching pairs, but they come in 2, 3 & 5 pin connectors and are very secure. All I've done (other than use some off the shelf connectors as well which cost pence, like the injector power connector) is carefully solder wires onto stripped out plugs - circuit test - heatshrink them - circuit test - insulating cocoon them and guess what, circuit test them again. All is good so far.

 

I am treating the loom - as I advise other novices to do when faced with 'loom-o-phobia' - to split it into a MANAGEMENT loom and a FEEDBACK loom. I will make one loom cope with everything that makes the engine run, and the other seperate loom cover dials, gauges, warning lights and reverse switch. Breaking it up this way makes it easier to understand, easier to make, easier to install in a logical fashion AND fault find if necessary.

 

And just for you Kieran, I shall post a labelled picture of my finished looms to help you put that beer down and pull your finger out. The time for collecting bits is over!

Edited March 11, 2008 by DrSarty

[GLPoomobile 958]

Rich what you could have done rather than solder, was to remove the terminals from the connector housings and simply buy new terminals. Crimp them up and put them back in to your 2nd hand housings. Nice compromise between cost and quality of finish

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Not with the AMP/junior timers I couldn't, but any of the others you are dead right. I'm just....erm...lazy.

[GLPoomobile 958]

You sure? Dunno about the AMP (is that a brand or do you mean amplifier?) but you should be able to get Junior Timer/Junior Power Timer terminals seperately.

 

Not really relevant now but just food for thought for anyone else thinking of doing similar.

 

Edit: would this have been any use?

Auto Electrical Supplies

Edited March 11, 2008 by GLPoomobile

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

AMP is a brand, and it's printed on many junior timer (injector style) plugs.

 

Many of the special plugs like the AMPs and my LS1 coil plugs need special, fine tools for crimping. The ICV plug is like my coil plugs but not quite identical due to a locating (idiot) spline. Joining wires, if done well is easier and should be equally secure.....I hope

[jackherer 543]

You sure? Dunno about the AMP (is that a brand or do you mean amplifier?) but you should be able to get Junior Timer/Junior Power Timer terminals seperately.

 

That was my plan but the plugs on a GTI6 loom I have don't look like they come apart, there are seals that appear to be glued in so I think they are single use only unlike 205 and Mi16 looms and I think the same is true of most modern plugs.

[welshpug 1,627]

they do come apart quite nicely, you just have to pick away the goo (its like really hard silicone) once thats out of the way theyre just like the normal ones.

[kyepan 291]

There are junior timer connector removal tools, but they seemed pricy last time I looked into them. If memory serves they are like a set of picks that come in different sizes to depress the springloaded catch. Then there is the separate tool for recrimping, and you would need to match the connector size like for like to make them secure in the connector block.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

GLPoo: From your link Steve. I'm sure they're a good supplier, like Vehicle Wiring Products, but...

 

Female housings are available in 5 different configurations with either 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 terminals.

 

Only one male housing is stocked, which has 2 terminals.

 

I would love to have new connectors throughout; however, even me wiring up my LS1 coil plugs is a PITA.These are 4 pins per plug, 4 of which are common to all (power & earth), 2 which are common to 2 (ECU trigger prs 1&4, 2&3) and 1 other. Each one has a fiddly little pin, so that's 16 in total and needs a $150 special tool, whereas I'm carefully using fine, needle nose pliers and check soldering for security.

 

At least with good plugs off cars in breakers yards you know they are professionally made and soldering new wires to 6inch pig tails off these plugs is just so easy in comparison. Cheaper too. As JackH said, all new plugs for my loom would have added at least another £50 to the price and another 4 hours of labour.

 

And making a loom is soooooooo dull!

[welshpug 1,627]

not sure about the $150, my ratchet crimping terminal tool cost me £25! (does allsorts of terminals from JPT's to Superseals etc)

 

I wish I knew a bit more about stuff like this as I've got a fair bit of experience in electrical wiring assembly from my stint working in a slot machine factory!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

It's a tool just for the LC1/ICV type terminals. The pliers work fine, but the crimps don't look as professionally pressed as the samples the guy sent me. Never mind eh.

 

If you want some experience, jump in your motor and help me finish this bastard loom!

[jackherer 543]

they do come apart quite nicely, you just have to pick away the goo (its like really hard silicone) once thats out of the way theyre just like the normal ones.

 

Do you mean the boot thing? What do you replace it with when you reassemble them?

[welshpug 1,627]

yeah looks like a boot, just a bit of silicone squished in does the job

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Well not a very exciting update, but then again loom is dull. Important though; so we have to crack on. Carlsberg Export and Columbo on the tele ( ). My idea of heaven.

 

Meet the 80% complete LS1 coil loom. 2 bare wires will have a 2 pin plug attached to mate this to 12v switched live and earth and the other 3 dive into the MS loom; 2 for ign 1 & 2 out of the VB921 ignition ICs on the MS board and 1 for an ECU ground (just for security I'm following the MS Manual's instructions) with a capacitor.

 

The wires are colour coded BTW. Blue (live), black (earth 1), black/red & black/blue are the ignitor pairings and a final 5th wire will be ECU protected ground.

 

Enjoy

 

The one pin you can see missing from the end of the plug is the last (ECU ground) pin & wire I have to put in. I ran out of wire and Columbo finished. Plus I was getting a bit

Edited March 11, 2008 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,627]

ahh superseal connectors, near identical terminals inside to JPT's and the same ratchet crimpers do them.

 

Its so satisfying having the wiring exactly where you want it to be and nice and neat

[GLPoomobile 958]

GLPoo: From your link Steve. I'm sure they're a good supplier, like Vehicle Wiring Products, but...

 

No worries Rich. Just thought I'd make the suggestion, but I don't know what half your connectors actually look like, so if it's not feasible it's not feasible.

 

I've got a £25 ratchet crimping tool and a set of terminal removal tools that Welshpug sourced for me, think that was also about £20. Think they will do most things, but as above, I don't know what your terminals look like so maybe these tools would not be suitable. I seem to remember members saying that you needed a specific and expensive ratchet crimping tool for the terminals on Superseal connectors, but mine worked just fine

 

So anyway, I'm not criticising your methods (who I'm am I to judge? I'm just an amateur, and at least you are actually getting on with your project while all I do is just talk about plans ). If you are happy with it, then crack on. Big respect for what you've achieved so far

[maturin23 10]

You need to get yourself one of these

 

You can take close ups like this with no skill and minimal experience!

 

Good work so far on the project - very enjoyable thread

Edited March 12, 2008 by maturin23

[fletch 0]

I have read through just about all of the 32 pages in the last day!

 

Very nice project, seems to be making a lot of progress.

 

Just a query regarding the crank; Is such a diesel crank suitable for the high revs it will be experiencing?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I have read through just about all of the 32 pages in the last day!

 

Very nice project, seems to be making a lot of progress.

 

Just a query regarding the crank; Is such a diesel crank suitable for the high revs it will be experiencing?

 

Thank you and good question. Brave reading too, as I don't half waffle!

 

The diesel crank is stronger, so I bloody hope at the very least it can cope with 7.5k. No one's told me otherwise.

 

Gulps

 

P.S. Ian, you're right; I'd love a new camera. All of my pics have been taken with my Sony Ericsson W800i phone which is s*it at close ups. And no, I don't have Judy Finnigan (?) syndrome. But £250 is £250 I could spend on the car. Sorry. When it works I'll borrow yours for some snaps, if it has a fast enough shutter speed that is!!

Edited March 13, 2008 by DrSarty

[base-1 17]

Have you set it to Macro mode? I thought mine was a bit better than that - still not great of course though!

[tom_m 0]

Have you set it to Macro mode? I thought mine was a bit better than that - still not great of course though!

 

seconded you should at least be able to set it to macro focus.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Fair camera tips; I'll try.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

9am (with bacon sandwiches - and hopefully good weather) Kyepan, Batfink, Pugrallye & DrS will be fitting the clutch, gearbox, new off-side engine mount and dropping 'Fred' in.

 

I need to run different gearbox oil because of the plate diff (including a running-in period), and would've had the gearbox on tonight with John (Pugrallye) had I not been missing the 3 dowels on the flywheel for locating the clutch housing. They're meant to be used and it would be silly with all the new torque to have to pull it all apart again for being lazy. All good things to those who wait.

 

The 4-2-1 manifold is now fully heat wrapped all the way down to under the car at the 2-1 shoulder.

 

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Dunno if these'll be of any use to anyone else, but to follow are some diagrams of the loom plan.

 

This covers my basic approach of splitting the loom into 'management' (what is needed to run the engine) and 'feedback' (what is needed to monitor what's going on - dials etc).

 

It's quite frightening when you see how many wires need to pass through the bulkhead, when your ECU is mounted in the cabin. This mass of wires, on paper before you even start playing is what I understand 'scares' people; but I've decided to attack it head on. I hope what I've listed and doodled is useful, either for a guide for someone doing similar (and let's face it the principle will be the same regardless of ECU brand) or just for interest.

 

Management Loom 1 - Basic layout: This is based on the pre-made DIYAutotune.com MS2 loom colours & ECU pin-outs

 

What this shows in summary is that you need 4 wires plus the MS loom going through the bulkhead to make the car run & control it. Quite obviously without the guages you wouldn't know when to use fan over-ride, but you get my gist.

 

**refers to my use of individual (LS1) coils advising an additional ECU ground. The coils' main ground is on the main gearbox/chassis earth stud. I am using the sensor return wire for an ECU located ground.

 

 

I will show the relay box diagram & the feedback loom later.

 

Above as a PDF:

Edited March 18, 2008 by DrSarty