[race_prep] Guernsey Hillclimb 205 Build

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Ill have to chat through the head volume cc with whoever i choose to work on the head, i have no idea how much material can be taken out so i can let them know what im after and see what they can get out of it, and then yes as you said the MLS gasket will make up any difference i need.

 

i had thought of opening up the water way a little, i know my XU10J2 8v head has slightly bigger water ways to the XUD9 block so i would definitely like to get the dremel out and match head, gasket and block!!

 

That would have been a future question whether or not i could drill out the holes in the MLS gasket, so you've just answered that one for me, thanks very much!!

 

Im going to call a couple of people now with regards to the head work

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Ill have to chat through the head volume cc with whoever i choose to work on the head, i have no idea how much material can be taken out so i can let them know what im after and see what they can get out of it, and then yes as you said the MLS gasket will make up any difference i need.

 

i had thought of opening up the water way a little, i know my XU10J2 8v head has slightly bigger water ways to the XUD9 block so i would definitely like to get the dremel out and match head, gasket and block!!

 

That would have been a future question whether or not i could drill out the holes in the MLS gasket, so you've just answered that one for me, thanks very much!!

 

Im going to call a couple of people now with regards to the head work

 

Just make sure to deburr the gasket properly.

 

However I'm tempted to ask cometic for the CAD drawing and do some changes to it before I order one next time.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Good call

 

I have just spoken to Mark Shilaber who is more than happy to work on my XU10 8v head, so out comes the Cam and off goes the head tomorrow for some professional work

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Good call

 

I have just spoken to Mark Shilaber who is more than happy to work on my XU10 8v head, so out comes the Cam and off goes the head tomorrow for some professional work

 

Speaking about the chamber bore above I was just having the 16v heads in mind...

Maybe it's not as easy to gain CC's anyway, not got much of a clue on 8v's.

 

But you'll figure it out

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Mark was saying it's possible to increase the depth of the combustion chamber, ie cutting into the valve seat and the re cutting the new seats and amending valves to suit! This does seem a very involved process compared to using a thicker MLS gasket so we'll have to talk about it and weigh up pro's and con's!

 

I'm excited to be getting my head to such a reputable guy and I think it's worth paying the extra to get the head done so not to hold back the new 2.3 bottom end!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Engine update -

 

I think I have come to a point of realisation that I am too naive to be able to build up such a custom engine on my own with very limited resources on the island and relying on phone calls for guidance!

 

As it's not a normal production build and with having such a mixture of parts either re-worked, stolen from other engines or completely custom, the only way forward is to have all the parts in one company and have them build it up using their expertise and then get it on the dyno!

 

I feel this is going to blow my budget out the window but for reliability and insurance of a good build and my investment it's the safest and only real way forward for me! This may however put a complete end to my 2010 season as I don't have a back up engine and all funds will be concentrated on the 2.3 build.

 

So choices now are with Mark Shilaber or Mass Racing Dev!

 

The crank and conrods currently being worked on by Mass and the head by Mark, both have excellent reputations so I will speak to both during this week.

 

Any thoughts greatfully received??

[Dj_mini 7]

Mark does top work and is a sound bloke if he's willing to build it id go with him.

Thats my vote

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Totally agree.

 

Was only at his workshops the other day. My car's being finally mapped there on 16th. Outstanding work.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I have to agree, big respect to Mark, he seems a great guy and very helpful and informative!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Morning all, im thinking an update is well over due now. Progress has been slow mainly due to me getting marriad and having a lovely honeymoon in Miami followed by cruising the Bahamas, now back to reality hard at work. My garage has had a full clearout and tidy up and now back to business.

 

So:

 

XU10 8v head has been fully worked by Mark Shilaber

 

96mm crank has been fully worked by Mass Racing Developments (see pic below)

 

S16 conrod 23mm small ends have been bushed to fit the 22mm Gudgeon Pin by Mass Racing

 

Currently cleaning up and preparing all parts (87mm bored block, oil pump, sump, windage tray, tensioners etc etc) to all be sent off to Mass Racing who will now be building the complete engine and running it on their dyno.

 

To complete the package i felt it was only right to do it properly and not waste time setting the new engine up with my old rickety set of 45's and go the extra mile with a full set of TB's. Expensive yes, but then i will neer have to touch that engine again as it will be complete. So Colin Satchell is currently making the new custom inlet manifold, Sandy will be building me the loom and setting a base map on the DTA S40 ECU and all will be sent to Mass to complete the build before Dyno time, they will then finish off the map once run in.

 

So all in all im very very excited (and poor by the end of the winter ) my only concern is block bore, praying the 87mm bore holds out.

 

Regards

 

Simon

 

BEFORE

 

 

AFTER

 

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

One quick question, i have opened up my GTi6 oil pump to give it a good clean out for the new build (lucky i did as it had ALOT of metal crap which sat against the mesh filter in the pick up), in pulling apart i noticed that there is a very thin metal plate acting like a gasket between to the 2 sections, now this metal plate gasket has like a plastic/rubber coating on both sides and some of this coating is peeling off.

 

Now i certainly dont want this to keep happening as it will eventually clog up very important oil ways but do i remove it all via my bench wire wool wheel leaving a nice shiney clean plate or does this stuff help it seal at all?!

 

regards

 

Simon

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Update:

 

>8v XU10 head complete

>TB inlet manifold built

>TB full set up ordered and being made

>Mass Racing dry fitted crank/rods/pistons and overcome all clearance issues (more than 1 to solve)

>Peugeot Stealers have continued to let me down with false ETA's on the oil pump gasket plate, now past the problem to Mass as couldn't wait any longer

>Bank balance being hit hard, but worth it :0)

 

Many many thanks to Sandy, Colin, Mark and Mass Racing for all the help and great work so far!

 

Thinking through the build the only minor but could turn into major concern I have is my engine build was originally to be on carbs and because on STD ignition I was not going to run a alternator to save weight, the extra draw of the engine and also because it's such a custom build no alternator brackets would fit! However now I'm going to be running TB's with full DTA management will my battery cope with no alternator??

 

I'm asking on previous experience of others with the same set up, has anyone run this set up with no alternator and how did it turn out?

 

The battery I'm running is a Odessey Extreme 40 racing battery, details can be seen at:

 

http://www.odysseybattery.com/extremespecs.html

 

Remember not track use purely hillclimb and sprint use, car started using extra supply from a large battery through a jump plug.

 

Many thanks

 

Simon

[welshpug 1,622]

you can always run a small alternator and under drive it

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I did see on a visit to brands hatch once a pug 205 racing which had fitted a very small alternator, say 1/3 the size of STD, no idea what it was from though, what do you need to look out for when choosing a different alternator, assume you can't stick any old unit in there??

[welshpug 1,622]

you can do just that if you're making a bracket (as long as the drive pulley matches the crank pulley) oh and it spins the right way

 

but if you want ease of fitment and replacement in future if the need arises then you could figure out what bracket would fit your block and source a suitable unit for said bracket.

 

there are companies out there that make lightweight race car alternators.

Edited November 20, 2010 by welshpug

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

The only trouble with finding a bracket which fits my block is that I can only go by looking at a picture from service box etc and so it's very trial an error which could turn out expensive, am thinkin best way is to source one of these small alternators from another car or if there isn't such a thing then go get a racing unit and then build adjustable brackets to fit it on.

 

Would prefer to run without one for reasons above but I am concerned I may run into issues and this wouldn't be an easy issue to sort with the engine in place. I'll see what I can find

[welshpug 1,622]

what block is it? its not that hard finding the right one.

 

one thing I would say about the race alternators, they are bloody expensive!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Yeh don't think my budget plan can stretch to one of them right now!

 

It's the XUD9Y, I found one that's looks similar but it's not one you come by everyday and is about 40-50 quid from Peugeot stealer, I'll upload some pics of the one I found and the block in the morning!

[Dj_mini 7]

I used one from a forklift truck on my engine this is about half the size / weight of a std type and only cost £40 off ebay i then just made up a few brackets ill try and sort out some pics so you can see what i have done.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Great thanx

 

And what on earth made you look to a forklift truck for one :0) I assume u work with or around one and spotted it?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Pic of the block (note the red dots where an engine mount bracket will be made so the 205 8v engine mount can be used)

 

Let me know if anyone can recognise a alternator bracket mat possibly fit

 

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

This is the 205 Diesel brackets, just doesnt look as if they would fit and also how do i guarantee than when i find a small alternator that it will fit this bracket.

 

Seems a custom bracket would be the way to go

 

[welshpug 1,622]

that bracket will fit fine, also normal gti alternators are the same as diesel ones, so easy to find both.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

great so fitment is easy, if using a std alternator, however this still has the issue of weight and draw on the engine

 

will price up some race units and see what i come up with

 

will 50amp be enough?!

 

am i right in thinkin that the lower the amp the lesser draw on the engine however the amps has got to replace the energy drawn from the battery by the cars systems

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Hmm i wonder;

 

clicky