[race_prep] Guernsey Hillclimb 205 Build

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

As said get who ever is doing the engine, Then you don;t have to worry and re-bushing is quite common, In some old 8v engine's I know used Toyota Bush's

[Sandy 189]

I'm not sure where exactly, but most likely to be a race engine builder or a good machine shop.

 

I know Sandy has done it before but don't know if he got someone else to do it for him.

I had some done yesterday as it happens. Pete Willis does mine and Simon already has his contact details I think. Not cheap or quick, but his precision and finishing is as good as you'll get. The bushes need to be parallel honed after fitting and that is a specialist job to do correctly. Jobs like this are often within the ability of a general engine reconditioner, but doing it to a suitable standard for a race engine often isn't sadly.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

As said get who ever is doing the engine, Then you don;t have to worry and re-bushing is quite common, In some old 8v engine's I know used Toyota Bush's

 

unfortunately it's me now doing the engine, just can't afford to have it shipped here there and everywhere to keep being let down, will send the crank away to Mass to be worked on then returned to me

 

I had some done yesterday as it happens. Pete Willis does mine and Simon already has his contact details I think. Not cheap or quick, but his precision and finishing is as good as you'll get. The bushes need to be parallel honed after fitting and that is a specialist job to do correctly. Jobs like this are often within the ability of a general engine reconditioner, but doing it to a suitable standard for a race engine often isn't sadly.

 

sounds good to me, probably be best if I were to send the rods and gudgeon pins together instead of requesting measurements myself, they can do a proper job then, sorry Sandy it doesn't appear I have the contacts for Pete Willis anymore?

 

Does he do crank lightening and balancing too? I'm just thinking it would be much nicer to get everything I need doing done by one person, that way they can make the small end bushes and then work on the crank and then measure up and order the big ends and mains too then send it back to me so I can fit it all in the block

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Have spoken with Chris from Mass who has said to send everything to him and he can get the small end bushes done by another company he uses, this way he will over see everything I need doing!

 

So packaged up ready to go is:

 

crank

4x rods

1x gudgeon pin

ally flywheel

oil pump crank cog

cambelt pulley

alternator belt pulley

 

in other words everything that attacha to the crank so a proper balancing can be done!

 

I have also asked chris while he has everything with him if he can measure up and order big ends and measure what I need for mains! At least I know it's all correct then!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Looking over the gti6 sump I have for this build there seems to be alot of extra bolt holes and large areas of extra metal parts that look like they bolt to the gearbox? But with my block the box simply bolts in 4 places to the block as with ally blocks! Has anyone else who has used this sump cut the extra bits off and only kept what's needed?? Just there seems to be alot of extra bulk for just a simple sump pan that bolts to the bottom of the block??

 

I'd certainly like to remove all this but sure it must be a normal done thing for this type of build?

 

Opinions pls

 

thanks

 

Simon

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

Cut the extra bits off.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Use the S16, XSi or early XU10, XUD sump's

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Not sure where your going with that one, I have already bought this gti6 one following advice in this thread so need to work with this one, not going to start hunting for yet another sump just to save me unleashing the angle grinder :0)

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Time to take some frustrations out on the sump!

 

As standard weighing in at 5.3kg

 

Now after stage 1 lightening, the hacking stage weighing in at 3.4kg a whole 1.9kg lighter!

 

Stage 2 will be with a sanding disc on the grinder to shave down the remainder of the old fins etc

 

will post some before and after pics up soon

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Pics of the sump progress

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Good work on the sump. That's what I do.

 

And it's WEBERS!!!

 

It says it on top of your carbs. Webber is an F1 driver.

[Tesstuff 222]

Good work on the sump. That's what I do.

 

And it's WEBERS!!!

 

It says it on top of your carbs. Webber is an F1 driver.

 

 

Always makes me chuckle, that no one ever dare correct Miles' spelling mistakes.

 

Even you Sarty

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

love it

[petert 550]

Machine or Polish crank then order bearing's, Never the other way around, .........

 

I'm going to correct Miles on this one! I prefer to install the shells in the block without a crank, then measure the hole and get the crank ground to suit the desired clearance. The same with the rods.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Well Chris as Mass will be able to sort the big ends but he doesnt have the block so i will have to measure up and order mains

 

Whats the procedure, start to finish, for measuring and ordering mains?!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Finished Sump pics (well before a clean and polish that is)

 

Now weighing in at 3.1kg, a weight shaving of 2.2kg

 

 

 

 

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Have been measuring up the Deck Height so i can start to get an idea of compression ratios and whether or not i will need to have the block decked.

 

See the pic taken today below, the measurement from the desk surface to the top of the main bearing journal is 203.15mm and the width of the main bearing journal is 63.82mm, so for total Deck Height (centre point of main bearing to desk surface as i beleive it to be) is 63.82 / 2 + 203.15 = 235.06mm

 

Worked as follows (mm)

 

235.06 Deck Height

(152) S16 Conrods

(35) 87mm JE Piston Compression Height

(48) 1/2 of 96mm Crank stroke

--------

0.06mm Below Deck Surface

 

I'd say this gives me a good starting point for working out CR, obviously a dry fit of everything will confirm before any decking takes place

 

OPINIONS PLZ?!?!

 

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Not sure if anyones reading these but hey ho ill carry on.

 

The fact that the pistons only sit 0.06 down the bore doesnt look good for a sensible CR, i was anticipating the block height being the same as the XU10J4 which i beleive is 235.8, however with the XUD9 being only 235.06 (or so i measured) this has given me the following CR:

 

(mm)

Bore - 87

Stroke - 96

H/Gasket Dia - 87

Compressed H/G Thickness - 1.2

XU10J2 Head CC Volume - 36cc

Piston Dome Volume - 0.00 (Flat Top)

Piston Deck Clearence - 0.06

 

= 14.1:1

 

Way too high!!!!!!!!

 

Im looking for 12.5:1 maximum

 

I have 2 ways to rectify this:

 

1) Increasing Head Combustion Chamber dia to 87mm from 86mm standard to match bore.

 

2) Thicker MLS Head Gasket

 

 

So while the crank work is being done i would very much like to send the head away to a good porting artist and have the CC dia taken to 87mm and maybe have a looksie at the chambers while they're at it.

 

I'm thinking of sending it to maybe Guy Croft, Puma, or, if i can get his contact number, Mark Shilaber.

 

Regards

 

Simon

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

1) Increasing Head Combustion Chamber dia to 87mm from 86mm standard to match bore.

 

Like I suggested a long, long time ago, mainly to unshroud the valves.

 

Even that I'm not sure will be enough; so the thicker head gasket should be considered. And it will also reduce the risk of valve clash.

 

Have you considered the use of a knock sensor? May need colder plugs too.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Have you considered the use of a knock sensor? May need colder plugs too.

 

what would this involve and what would be the benefits? Sorry to be anal just not used such a thing before? Please elaborate for me?

 

And yes correct, valve unshrouding will be a very important factor in me taking the cc dia out to 87mm

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Can I suggest going and looking up what a knock sensor does...?

 

They both effectively assist in avoiding something you don't want, which may arise with such a potentially high CR.

[hcmini1989 16]

Can I suggest going and looking up what a knock sensor does...?

 

They both effectively assist in avoiding something you don't want, which may arise with such a potentially high CR.

water injection might help aswell

Edited June 20, 2010 by hcmini1989

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Don't worry I'm spending hours searching on the net for help with this build, ie never heard of MLS head gaskets until researching lately!

 

Will look into this

 

thanx for the ideas

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

If i am right in thinking, from what i have read about Knock Sensor, that you need to run some sort of management even if its just MS Ignition Management to run a Knock Sensor.

 

Which i dont have by the way

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Im looking for 12.5:1 maximum

 

I have 2 ways to rectify this:

 

1) Increasing Head Combustion Chamber dia to 87mm from 86mm standard to match bore.

 

2) Thicker MLS Head Gasket

 

I always believed all the cast iron blocks are supposed to have a nominal height of 235mm crank-centerline to deck.

 

Have ordered some custom rods so I really hope it fits!

 

About the chamber on the 2.3 I increased it to 44cc chamber volume, the chambers are only 83mm diameter even on the 86mm bore engines so there is some gain to be had there.

 

The cometic head gasket can be bought in whatever thickness (up to about 3mm) I believe should give you possibilities to get the compression where you want it.

 

However if you get one you might want to drill out the holes for the waterways a little bit as I'm thinking they're too small as my engine seem to run too hot, which a friend with a T16 engine also experienced with the cometic one.