[race_prep] Guernsey Hillclimb 205 Build

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Hi all

 

Hope everyone is good and had a successful season for those who race

 

Nothing much to report here really, tried a bigger tyre profile on the front this year plus a longer 5th both of which dos nothing but give me more hassle

 

So now back to the drawing board and current consideration is

 

1) move from 4.4 FD to the 3.3 samsonas offer and then drop to 13" wheels giving a very nice gearing all through with putting the shorter 5th back in

 

Or

 

2) stick to 15" wheels and go custom FD ie a 3.8

 

However I would like to move to 10" wide front tyres so if I'm buyin new I might as well take advantage of a cheaper off the shelf 3.3 FD and the added advantage of a lighter 13" wheel over the larger 15"

 

So those are my options and opinions appreciated as always

 

However in to my next ball ache which to date I still haven't aorted and thanks binding crappy brakes front and rear.

 

I have prices up rally design and hi spec but rally design only offer a Willwood set up with a 310mm disc, hi spec are slightly better with a 283mm disc (these are 2 piece discs I'm after btw) but as I currently only run 1.6gti brakes which are 247mm I don't want to go any bigger than that ideally as they do me perfectly for my application.

 

Does anyone know where I can get hold of a smaller sized rotor in the region of 250mm??

 

Many thanks

 

Simon

[Anthony 1,000]

What is the change in gear ratios to go with that 3.3 FD?

 

If the ratios are unchanged, going from a 4.4 FD to a 3.3 FD will be utterly hopeless and far, far too long.

 

Apologies if I missed it, but what's wrong with the current 4.4 FD setup? Surely you're not maxing that out on a hillclimb?

 

Good to hear that you're still around and still competing btw

[welshpug 1,627]

smaller diameter wheels I'd imagine Anthony.

 

the other option is to go longer and not use 5th, less gear changes and seeing as you have plenty of grunt I would imagine it would actually be quicker off the line from less wheelspin and less gearchanging before the first corner.

 

rwd escorts run about a 247mm rotor iirc and there is a wildwood direct replacement caliper to fit these.

Edited October 20, 2014 by welshpug

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Morning,

 

When i first fitted the dogbox i had to go with the off the shelf FD which was either 3.3 or 4.4, i went for the 4.4 so i could retain shorter gears for my application

 

However the car was then only geared to a maximum of 99mph with increasing my rpm limit to 7600 from 7200, this was suitable for my main hillclimb event BUT meant i couldn't do any 1/4 sprint events and previously hit 108mph with the old box and also my 3 Alderney events are speed events so weren't suitable but it was a start

 

So to attempt to rectify this i went for a longer 5th gear and went for a bigger profile tyre which is how i ran for the remainder of this season (only started half way through because of studying commitments)

 

However this set up proved that the jump from 4th to the longer 5th was too much and the engine would drop off the torque band leaving a sluggish pull in 5th

 

Also the bigger profile meant having to raise the ride height and use wheel spacers to clear so was a nightmare

 

With that in mind and wishing to move to 10" front wheels and reduce my rpm limit back down to a safer 7200 my options are now open again to fix this issue once and for all.

 

I have looked at the gearing in each gear for each option and they can produce the same output which is suitable through all gears

 

OPTION 1

mph@redline 7200 rpm 15" Wheels and 8.7/21.5/15 Tyres (Equivalent to 221/37/15)

Samsonas Dog Gears 2.833 2.083 1.667 1.350 1.105 3.800

1st - 42.66

2nd - 58.02

3rd - 72.49

4th - 89.52

5th - 109.36

 

OPTION 2

mph@redline 7200 rpm 13" Wheels and 10/20.0/13 Tyres (Equivalent to 254/35/13)

Samsonas Dog Gears 2.833 2.083 1.667 1.350 1.105 3.358

1st - 45.03

2nd - 61.25

3rd - 76.53

4th - 94.50

5th - 115.45

 

To me the massive advantage of moving to 13" is the weight saving in the wheel/tyre hence allowing the engine to rev better and faster (plus the cheaper tyres haha)

 

Hope that made a little more sense

 

Thanks for the Escort info, ill look into that, so if i could get a bracket made these would fit perfect i assume?!?

 

Cheers

Edited October 20, 2014 by wardy18

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I had thought about going longer and not using 5th but the gear changes are so quick with the dogbox (i have had several people this season ask if i was running a sequential) that i would prefer to keep that extra pull of a higher ratio in 3rd and 4th

[welshpug 1,627]

shorter you mean?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

longer as is more speed in each gear in effect making it a 4 speed box

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Possible Wilwood setups:

 

Ford:

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=562_563_567&products_id=14502

&

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=562_563_567&products_id=3934

 

(Both 247mm disc and lightweight 4 pot Midilite caliper)

 

Also a kit RallyDesign didn't mention to me for the 205 1.6 GTi

 

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=562_563_570&products_id=3968

 

(However only good for 14" wheels not 13" as I want to run)

 

Thinking of going for one of the does kits but swap the caliper bracket for the 205 one in the kit above and adapt to fit

 

What you reckon?

[welshpug 1,627]

I know of one 266mm setup using a special hispec lug fit caliper which uses a standard late type pug/citroen 22mm thick disc, there's an alloy belled rotor available too.

 

they do fit under a 13" wheel too.

 

didn't know RD did a 1.6 kit, only issue with those is the cost of replacement discs is significantly more than a bog standard 266mm pug disc and close to an off the shelf rotor.

 

also, they wont fit your hubs as the 1.6 has a taller offset to its drive flange.

Edited October 25, 2014 by welshpug

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Who supplies that 266mm kit, is it direct through hispec?

 

I'm running 309 hubs so what do you think my best option is as these companies seem to not want to help with anything custom so am at a loss

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Please share you knowledge of this 266mm kit??

 

Also you mentioned about the 247mm ford kits which I have looked at but have no idea how these would fit being a radial fit as the 205 is a lug fit are they not??

[welshpug 1,627]

the hispec lug fit caliper is only available through a saxperience and rallye register forum member Marc Boni.

 

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350515

 

the ford kits use a bracket, as pictured..

 

no idea how close these are to fitting a pug though, all I know is that the AP caliper has been used on a 205 (the old lockheed cast steel ones, not "ap racing" ) and the wilwood kits were designed as replacements.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Thanks

 

Is Marc on this forum? I recognise that name for some reason

 

Have registered to that forum but can't view the post either because I don't have the correct privileges or because I haven't made enough posts yet

 

Nothing's easy eh

[Dj_mini 7]

Simon pm me with your contact info and I will forward it on to marc on 106rr for you so he can get in touch with you.

 

Dan

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Done thanks mate

[petert 554]

Rich - as you'll know Petert supplies a baffle plate which attaches to the oil pump via the pick up bolts, this is what I mean, not the pick up extension

 

Both - I'm not going for the extended pick up, if I was I would need the spacer as you know so that I could use the extended pick up but for now I'm just having the gti6 baffled sump and windage tray

 

Welshpug - when you say gti6 baffle plate do you mean the Petert one and also I'm sure I read somewhere that all XU oil pumps were the same, it was the sump that was different which meant Petert had to supply different pump baffle plates for different sump applications?

Just read this, six years later. When you extend the sump/pump, the factory pump baffle no longer works very well. You need to make a new custom baffle, which is approx. 13mm deeper and shaped differently. Otherwise, oil will pass it easily. For racing applications, I also put a trap door in the pump baffle.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Hi all

 

Long time no speak (apologies) it's been a pretty hectic few months with massive deadlines at work an ever fast growing little boy (now at a non stop age of 2) and studying for my final exams for ACCA to be taken in June.

 

This said my 2015 season is not happening, i need to get this qualification under my belt to further exceed my families quality of life.

 

So for now it is simply planning the developments to the 205 and start buying in or gettin made the parts.

 

I have still got absolutely nowhere with regards to finding a brake set up of ally 2 pot calipers and more so the 2 piece disk that will fit inside 13" wheels!!

 

Spoox have no answer to a bell that will fit a small enough rotor and still clear the hub etc and have also never heard back from Marc Boni.

 

Any ideas as I can't move forward with the new FD or 13" wheels until I can be sure I can upgrade the front brakes as I'd like.

 

Many thanks and look forward to hearing from you all again

 

Simon

[welshpug 1,627]

have a chat with godspeed brakes.

 

marc found that the hispec calipers flexed too much giving uneven pad wear, they were the ultralite design

not the billet4 afaik.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Great thanks I'll get in touch with them

 

Did Marc find a solution to at 2 piece disc set up small enough for a 13" wheel!

[petert 554]

Why a 13" wheel?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

- much lower rotational weight

- lower unsprung weight

- matched to a custom FD

- lack of choice for 14" wheels

- ability to lower the car more (once amendments have been made the subframe to correct CG and Roll Centre)

- better choice of slick tyres (ie lower stiffer side walls to help with my tyre roll issues, of and cheaper)

- moving to 10" wide fronts, 9" tears

[welshpug 1,627]

the ultralite caliper did fit under 13"s with a standard 266mm pug disc, though iirc the weight limit on them is 700 kg.

 

some escort ap's could be made to fit as they ran 260mm under a 13" wheel.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I'm only 35kg over 700kg and I have some big weight reduction plans so will be hovering just above 700kg so I'm happy with that!!

 

It's just a matter of finding a bell small enough to fit over the hubs etc and still fit a 266mm rotor

[welshpug 1,627]

hispec did make a belled disc for marc, theyll fit any 1.9/base model hub and any other hub that shares the same drive flange to lug offset.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

309 GTi??