[race_prep] Guernsey Hillclimb 205 Build

[welshpug 1,622]

it wont be spongy as such, but I have noticed a difference in cars with hardline to full braid.

 

solid lines are easier to route on the trailing arms for example, and neater in the bay and less susceptible to damage and chafing, need fewer support per length also.

[alync406 4]

I have braided hose from the master cylinder right to the rear in my car and it definitely doesn't give a spongy pedal for me. I think it looks better in the car to hardline's but that would be down to preference really I suppose. I know a lot of people that use braided hose throuhout and never heard of anyone complaining about pedal feel or anything or anyone that changed back to hardline's for any reason either.

 

I used a banjo bolt on my rear calipers too and it works well but them fittings Mei linked to look good so may be a better way to do it.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Great thanks for the input, I really would like braided hose throughout!!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

So I was gonna use the following for my rear line split:

 

1 x https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360846759646

3 x https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171145242107

 

Total £38

 

Then I found these:

 

1 x https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171779092616

1 x https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171145242107

 

Total £28

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Roll Cage additions - before i bought any new tubing for the additional bars i thought it best to check the MSA regs and what a headache that caused.

 

I have an FIA Homologated cage which has a main hoop of 50x2mm and a front hoop of 40x2mm, this would normally be illegal as the min requirements are either 50x2 or 45x2.5 however because its FIA Homologated its legal.

 

HOWEVER because its FIA Homologated the MSA regs say i cannot touch it in any way at all, not even adding gussets.

 

MSA Regs are as follows:

 

K1.2.2

"Any modification to a homologated

ROPS (other than fitment of door bars and harness

bars) is prohibited."

 

K1.4.1

"Minimum Dimensions (Ø in mm)

a) Mandatory tubular members

45 x 2.5 (1.75” x 0.095”) or 50 x 2.0 (2.0” x 0.083”).

38 x 2.5 (1.5” x 0.095”) or 40 x 2.0 (1.6” x 0.083”).

(For roll cages/bars approved prior to 1.1.95).

b)Optional tubular members

38 x 2.5 (1.5” x 0.095”) or 40 x 2.0 (1.6” x 0.083”)."

 

So my options were, 1) Leave it alone, 2) Change the front hoop for MSA min spec and throw away the Homologation Cert and class a custom cage or 3) New cage altogether

 

None of these were that suitable choices, BUT, after a call to the MSA Technical team just to confirm, they have mentioned that in K1.4.1, the Minimum Spec for tubing, there is a caveat where (as shown above) for cages/bars approved prior to '95 the minimum spec is reduced to 38x2.5 or 40x2. I had rubbished this clause because i assumed "approved" meant homologated so this made my cage legal but still meant i couldn't make any additions because it would no longer be an "approved" cage.

 

HOWEVER the MSA technical team enlightened me and stated that this caveat actually meant these are the minimum dimensions for roll cages fitted to VEHICLES dating pre 95, which as you'll all know captures all 205s, i had him repeat this several times as in no way does it read like that in the blue book.

 

This means i can make the additions to the cage, throw away the Homologation Certificate and class it as a "To MSA Spec Custom Cage for a Pre 95 Vehicle" (the MSA guy even advised to do this).

 

Before making any further moves i have emailed the technical team and requesting this in writing as im sure many scrutineers don't read it like this either.

 

Simon

[welshpug 1,622]

what exactly do you want to add to the cage?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

1) Tie in the front strut tops to the cage front hoop including a triangulated bar (as pretty standard these days)

 

2) Lateral bar to tie in the front hoop legs, fitted just above the steering column

 

3) Lateral bar to tie together the main hoop legs or the backstay legs

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

New fuel cell has arrived:

 

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab247/Wardy18/2016%20Upgrades/46B6058A-977C-4DDF-AA03-11BFD4239E92_zpsi47gjjgj.jpg

 

Also my gripper rebuild kit is here, just need to find out what to do and what torque setting is best for my application:

 

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab247/Wardy18/2016%20Upgrades/2AA62BEE-C991-4C69-96CB-BD00B0371A2B_zps6fq03ntb.jpg

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Here's the confirmation that i've been waiting for.....

 

Dear Simon,

 

I confirm that the smaller dimensions listed in K1.4.1(a) below are applicable to vehicles manufactured prior to 01/01/1995

 

38 x 2.5 (1.5” x 0.095”) or 40 x 2.0 (1.6” x 0.083”)

 

Best Regards

Michael

[welshpug 1,622]

very interesting!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Its a game changer thats for sure!!

 

All i need to know now is can i connect the strut tops to the cage by running roll cage tubing directly forward from the roll cage front hoop through the top left/right of the bulkhead and welding to the strut top.

 

I am expecting a NO with the following in place so would like to know how everyone else has done this (i have my own ideas):

 

S12.4.3 states "It is only permitted to make holes for the passage of cables, fuel, water, oil, hydraulic, instrument or fire extinguisher lines as per Vehicle Regulations. All redundant holes must be covered with metal plates."

[welshpug 1,622]

I can't see why not as there are many stock cages for the 205 with the tubes you want to add in the design.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Yeh thats what i think but then they are not necessarily just for Hillclimb applications which have this specific regulation

 

Those cages could be used in many other applications such as rallying which may not have that regulation

 

I know Colin had some issues with this but cant remember how he got around it

[Dj_mini 7]

my previous car failed because of the cage passing through the bulk head you must show a clear break in the tube / gusset.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

How did you do it to show a clear break?!

[petert 550]

Maybe like this?

 

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/restoration-projects/116014-cam-pats-205-race-car-10.html

 

#235

 

It's built to our local Improved Production rules, which also doesn't allow cage through the bulkhead.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Very nice build, however I am unable to do the cross to the bulkhead because I have my oil tank is very much in the way

 

But I may have to do the same sort of thing with plating the tube either side of the bulkhead and bolting through the bulkhead to connect them

[And 15 1 Cars]

I take it that is a hill climb rule, for stage you just cut a hole and weld the hold back up to the tube as they are only bothered about holes. other wise the SD cages had them bolting on both sides of the bulk head and a bolt through both parts so only the bolts are through the bulk head.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I'm waiting for a reply from the MSA to clarify as after their previous email any interpretation is bloody possible

 

But yes you have outlined the 2 possible options I'm looking at

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

How far do you generally gusset the main and front hoops?

 

Is it just generally the top half or floor to roof?

[And 15 1 Cars]

Just at the a-piller and b-piller window parts so top parts, roof to cage is normally not done but don't think there is a reason that it couldn't be tho.

[Biggles 65]

Here's the confirmation that i've been waiting for.....

 

Dear Simon,

 

I confirm that the smaller dimensions listed in K1.4.1(a) below are applicable to vehicles manufactured prior to 01/01/1995

 

38 x 2.5 (1.5” x 0.095”) or 40 x 2.0 (1.6” x 0.083”)

 

Best Regards

Michael

very interesting!

Not just interesting but quite remarkable. And certainly not how the regs seem to be written. I could have saved 10 kg if I'd known that and I considered that to be one of the clearer bits of the Blue Book ... Edited June 20, 2016 by Biggles

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Calipers now arrived and are surprisingly heavy

 

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab247/Wardy18/2016%20Upgrades/2E4BD5D4-26CE-48FE-9433-FC46744F0BC1_zpscck4sv0d.jpg

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

New fuel cell fitted, what a ball ache as there ain't much space under there

 

http://s868.photobucket.com/user/Wardy18/library/2016%20Upgrades

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

The makings of a new dashboard for my batt cut off and all the switches, moved from a plastic box where the passenger seat is normally located, main reason is to make room to be able to put a temporary passenger seat in to able to scare the s*ite out of people

 

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab247/Wardy18/2016%20Upgrades/E94D111B-1263-434E-A2A4-6A05C09384B7_zpsuo7hicx8.jpg