[engine_work] Mad's - Supercharged Pug Project

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Hello supercharger fans... Today will be mostly showing you broken engine pictures....

 

But first, what the finish engine bay looked like before I stripped it down.

 

 

 

See the filter popping out... look between the wheel and rad.

 

 

and now for the broken engine!

 

 

 

The tail of problems continue... One of the head bolts snapped... Was expecting it! It is nice however that its the easyest one to get to! I think i'm going to drill and helli it, as broken off stud extractors are whole world of pain! and I have enough pain. Note the shiny edges on some of the valves!

 

I'm sure that the mark on the piston is just in the carbon, and the piston is fine.

 

Right gotta work out my next move... any one in my area want to donate a working 8v.... or a good cylinder head Thought not!

 

Mad.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Worked out what caused the engine blow up today.... Basically in a rush to put the car back together after changing the crank seal, we didnt torque the crank shaft bolt up enough and did clean the face of the pulley. The pulley then slipped and broke the key and put the valve timming out... Bang broken engine. How stupid do we feel. Lesson learnt!

 

Now on the look out for a new engine! So anyone with a working 8v they want rid of give me a shout!

 

Mad.

 

[danpug 1]

Gutting, so close as well.

[24seven 104]

I have an xu5 that works. piston rings could probably do with being replaced, but the head is all freshly rebuilt and shimmed up properly.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Bump!

 

Its back.... The superchargered shed is back... I've fitted the 'new' engine (£20 from a guy on ebay) the car runs up and idles nicely! The engine bay is back to looking like this! Hopefully there will be more updates over the comming weeks, with a mapping session in early march!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mad.

[stevec205gti 0]

Good news Mad - glad you've not lost heart!!!!

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

It RUNS!

 

Ok, so I only drove it 6 miles, and at less than 3000rpm.... but it runs! Just need to map it now!

 

More pictures and details later!

 

[maturin23 10]

Great news!

 

You must feel pretty good tonight - it's been a long and difficult pregnancy

Edited March 5, 2008 by maturin23

[danpug 1]

Any updates on this?

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

After a couple of short shakedown runs over the last couple of weeks, we got down to mapping yesterday! What a day to start mapping a supercharged pug, it was pouring with rain all day! We had to be careful because the air filter is quite low, and we haven’t boxed it in yet, so had to avoid all the big puddles!

 

The mapping processed consisted of driving up and down at various rpms and throttle positions, trying to fix the map at that point. I had a friend in riding shotgun operating the laptop shouting out which rpm and throttle position to try next. It’s a real trick mapping full throttle at low rpms… Left foot braking, trying to keep the rpm steady as the throttle is increased. The brakes were warmed up nicely!

 

By the end, it’s just awesome… In gear acceleration is fantastic, pulling from 2k to 4.5k in third gear, is just great (that’s all we’ve mapped)! There is more to come from the mapping, but we’re happy with it so far.

 

A max MAP reading of 1.35bar was reached, we were hoping for 1.5bar (0.5 bar of boost), so may need to source a smaller charger pulley to up the boost.

 

I'll post some pictures later.

 

Mad

[jackherer 543]

Thats excellent, nicely done

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Boy is it loud! The charger really does wine, and it not from the belt! It seems to be an airflow related noise, still trying to bottom out what exactly it is. So far I have done about 70 trouble free miles in the supercharged pug, ok, not quite! Had front bush / ball joint problems, now fixed, but this showed up a braking problem! I should be able to get this fixed at the weekend, so I can get some more mapping in.

 

I need to get my knock sensor fitted, and get some miniature k-type thermocouple plugs, suggestions from where please! Oh and some bigger injectors....

 

Now for the pictures....

 

 

New Engine...

 

Engine bay, air filter will be boxed in...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mad.

[vern 0]

What size injectors are you looking for?, I have some 315cc in as new condition, only done a couple of thousand miles.

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

Really interestnig write up, couple of questions for you as I'm planning on turbocharging my 8v 1600.

 

How have you sorted out the idling air wise, have you kept the SAD and the bleed in the throttle body? Or gone for an idle valve and blocked the drilling in the throttle body?

 

Cheers!

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Intresting you should ask that.... I am in the process of fitting an idle control valve from old vauxhall or ford, dont remember which. This will be controlled by the ECU and should sort out the cold idle issue (the problem being there isnt any!). At the moment, I have blocked up ( ok it was removed, to allow room for the charger) the connection where the inlet connects to the SAD. So idle control is only done by the throttle by-pass screw at the moment. This works fine if you dont mind waiting for 5 minutes for the car to warm before using it, which isnt a problem at the moment. I am going to tap a new connection into the inlet manifold and the other end via the valve will be connected to.... Err, umm... Not sure... Still deciding, I think it depends on how well the valve control works. I must consult with my automotive guru on this matter...

 

I can now fit the charger kit (bar loom) in a couple of hours, its all really simple and bolts togther nice. The charger mount is as strong as an ox, there isnt any movement in it. I have been looking into getting a few charger mounts made up, and selling them. Mounting the charger is the bigist headache of the whole build.

 

 

Injectors: I'm looking for some around the 300cc/min mark. I have just aquired some more 'new' injectors but again not sure of the flow rate! I must build myself an injector test bench! What did your injectors come from? Are they the same length as the OE pug ones?

 

Mad...

 

Ps. I did get a little bored with writing the supercharger story... Maybe i'll finish it at some point!

Edited March 27, 2008 by madspikes

[leon 1.9 0]

Try RS for Type K thermocouple connectors- http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchB...7309#breadCrumb

 

Although I order stuff using work, don't know if you can have a personal account?!?

 

Type K is Nickel -Chromium/ Nickel-Aluminium isn't it? Some benefits to being an instrument tech...

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

Ah right I see, I have blocked off all the bypass in the throttle body, and am planning to run a line from the inlet side of the turbo through an Mi16 PWM idle valve, to the stub on the bottom of the inlet manifold where the SAD pipe used to go. Will have to wait and see if it works or not.....

[vern 0]

I got the injectors new from Emerald, and yes they are standard 205 fit, I was using them in mine, but I now have larger ones.

 

I have got the Mi idle control valve working on my tubo conversion, using the Emerald. I used a take off from the hose joiner, where it connects to the throttle body, and used the inlet on the bottom of the inlet manifold.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Not much progress has happen over the last month.... babies take up alot of time!

 

Since the last up date I have fitted a heat shield between the chargecooler and the exhaust manifold, to try and keep the charged air cooler... I have also fixed the odd oil leak and actually attached the air filter on with some silicone hose, as opposed to gaffer tape!

 

I have also purchased / acquired a knock sensor controller, some saab turbo injectors and a bag of thermocouples!

 

The major news is from the test drive yesterday…. After a spirited 20 miles drive…. I had to back off as the inlet temp was reaching 55 C and causing knock. Then after checking the logs, the injectors were working at 102% duty at some points… Glad I’ve got the saab injectors coming! The test drive also highlighted that the oil temperature gauge doesn’t work, but that’s no biggie! The biggest thing is how it drives, there is just some much torque at low rpm… 30mph to xxx in 5th no problem…. It’s a quiet pussy cat when required and lion when poked with a big stick! And the “home made” short shift conversion works brilliantly!

 

I love it, just need to get it painted, the car not the short shift!

 

My next task to fit the knock sensor and attach the thermocouple around the engine. These thermocouples should enable me to work out whats going on with the old inlet temperature. I’m also thinking about raising the windscreen edge of the bonnet as others have done to aid in under bonnet cooling. I’m also thinking about adding some ducting around the radiators to funnel more air through them, especially the chargecooler rad. Oh, and finished the mapping so I can go above 4500rpm!

 

 

Mad.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Its been a long time since the last update, and not much has happend. The only thing that has happened really is that we discovered the pre-rad for the charge cooler really wasnt cooling enough.

 

After what seems like the worlds supply of rads, we have a solution, another GTi rad to be used for the pre-rad! There cant be too many 205 GTi's running around with 2 rads! The rad fit perfectly, no mods to valance or bumper, no chopping of body work, just a few brackets and jobs a good'em.

 

 

The main rad is supported by two brackets bolted to the cross member that goes across under the rad. Then there is a home made spring / flap thing bolted to the slame pannel that keeps it in place. The pre-rad is supported from the underside in the same way as the main rad, but is kept in place at the top by a strip of angle and big 'clip'. The clip cant come off because the bumper rests on top of it.

 

New slim cooling fan and oil cooler bolted to the main rad.

 

Looking farly OE, no body work chops here!

 

 

If this doesnt provide enough cooling, i'm going to go away and cry!

 

Mad.

[jackherer 543]

There cant be too many 205 GTi's running around with 2 rads! The rad fit perfectly, no mods to valance or bumper, no chopping of body work, just a few brackets and jobs a good'em.

 

There was one other but it was broken many years ago. http://www.205gtidrivers.com/articles/e2-chargecooler.html

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Yep saw that and decided that wasnt the right method for me to use.

 

 

Mad.

[jackherer 543]

TBH it was an absolute bodge job

 

(maybe you could use your pics to make an updated article for the main site?)

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Well the last month has been full of ups and downs....

 

Got the car back on the road with its new pre-rad and did some more fuelling tweaks, and she went like a rocket ship! Just when I was thinking cool, now its time to think about the body work sorted, a sudden power drop! A quick compression test later, showed compression ratios of 12 10 10 7 bar.... with some oil added to the mix brought these up to 13 12 12 12. Dead rings! So the £20 engine has let go, well it has been driven hard for the last 600 miles and I have made back the money from selling bits I didnt want. The new plan is to do the sensible thing and rebuild the engine to a strong standard spec over the winter. While the engine is out I can also change the charger pulley to up the boost from the poor 0.35 bar to a more sensible 0.5 bar!

 

I might even give the body some attention... White or black I cant decide....

 

Right off to declare the old girl SORN..

 

Mad.

[platty 1]

White!!!!

 

Sorry to hear about rings, however, at £20 youve done well