205 T16 replica build

[Berglundracing 26]

The frontfloor is taken place.

Untill I have sandblasted the car the welds will be semi done. I have had to many fires on the floor from dripping bodycoat?

The roof is ready fore welding tomorrow.

[Berglundracing 26]

Lower frame, roof and frontfloor- todays work

[Berglundracing 26]

Today I have made the lower rearframe removeble. Its a must though the engine is almost built-in and I had some problem taking it out. I will make new enginebrakets so its easy to removed ve the engine.

I found a Forum with modelcars 1:24 and its much easier to se details.

[Berglundracing 26]

[Berglundracing 26]

I had to change the angle of the tube and therefore the brackets ended up to short……out of that kind of material

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

Wow, that's an impressive amount of work so far, keep it coming!

 

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Absolutely fascinating! Love it! But also completely insane.

 

Firstly, anything I've done in the past project-wise, & being a little contentious here, even ANYTHING done by anyone else from what I've seen to date, is pathetic compared to this. The scale of hard work here makes many other projects look silly in comparison.

 

2 things struck me while reading from page 1:

 

- If you're trying to build a true-ish replica, then you need references. I was going to ask where are you getting the references from, & it struck me on page 1 that decent model kits would be an excellent start; then you posted some pictures of model kits. This MAY be the only decent reference material, although it'll just be visual & you'll have to figure out what the parts are/were. It's amazing that you've managed to collect so much info/reference material; that in itself is a massive part of the project.

 

- What will be interesting, is whether you are/become tempted to make things better. So rather than just copy what it was - even if that's possible - or make something that looks the same & does the same thing, you will probably be tempted to make/use something better. With that in mind, it'll never actually be an original copy; it'll be a version of....and arguably better?

 

Best of luck to you & HUGE respect.

[Berglundracing 26]

4 hours ago, DrSarty said:

Absolutely fascinating! Love it! But also completely insane.

 

Firstly, anything I've done in the past project-wise, & being a little contentious here, even ANYTHING done by anyone else from what I've seen to date, is pathetic compared to this. The scale of hard work here makes many other projects look silly in comparison.

 

2 things struck me while reading from page 1:

 

- If you're trying to build a true-ish replica, then you need references. I was going to ask where are you getting the references from, & it struck me on page 1 that decent model kits would be an excellent start; then you posted some pictures of model kits. This MAY be the only decent reference material, although it'll just be visual & you'll have to figure out what the parts are/were. It's amazing that you've managed to collect so much info/reference material; that in itself is a massive part of the project.

 

- What will be interesting, is whether you are/become tempted to make things better. So rather than just copy what it was - even if that's possible - or make something that looks the same & does the same thing, you will probably be tempted to make/use something better. With that in mind, it'll never actually be an original copy; it'll be a version of....and arguably better?

 

Best of luck to you & HUGE respect.

Thanks!

It has never been my goal to build a true-replica. It would probably be impossible and very exspensive.

I want to build something similar and try to get the feeling of a group B rally car in my budget range. I think I never could build something better than the original T16:-)

[Berglundracing 26]

I made some rally pin-stands.

pictures next week on lifted car.

I will slso detache the rear lower frame then.

I have also done the first test drive but film was to big :-(

(towed)

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

For clarity. I wasn't implying that you were trying to build something better than the Group B 205, but that in some regards, you may end up doing so.

 

I'm sure you'll get the feel of the original car, so you won't go wrong; but 40 years have gone by. This will mean some parts originally used may not only be unavailable, but even be difficult/impossible to identify.

 

What parts you find or use instead MAY actually be better, simply because they're newer.

 

You also have access to 40 additional years of experience that you can apply.

 

I'm giving you full credit for attempting/doing this & want to encourage you to keep it up. You won't/can't (I think) make a total replica. But I'm also suggesting that what you do make could arguably be better. New ideas,  new parts & a fresh look.

 

Go for it dude!!

 

As an example perhaps, would you rather drive an original Escort MkI or this one?:

https://retropower.co.uk/2019/02/05/gordon-murrays-mk1-escort/

 

Edited January 15 by DrSarty

[Berglundracing 26]

On 1/15/2024 at 4:16 PM, DrSarty said:

For clarity. I wasn't implying that you were trying to build something better than the Group B 205, but that in some regards, you may end up doing so.

 

I'm sure you'll get the feel of the original car, so you won't go wrong; but 40 years have gone by. This will mean some parts originally used may not only be unavailable, but even be difficult/impossible to identify.

 

What parts you find or use instead MAY actually be better, simply because they're newer.

 

You also have access to 40 additional years of experience that you can apply.

 

I'm giving you full credit for attempting/doing this & want to encourage you to keep it up. You won't/can't (I think) make a total replica. But I'm also suggesting that what you do make could arguably be better. New ideas,  new parts & a fresh look.

 

Go for it dude!!

 

As an example perhaps, would you rather drive an original Escort MkI or this one?:

https://retropower.co.uk/2019/02/05/gordon-murrays-mk1-escort/

 

True, I have contacted Kenneth Hansen who is a Swedish former 14 time European champ in rallycross and team owner of Hansen motorsport. supporting his son Timmy to be world champion in rallycross. He sell Sadev drivetrains and offered me a transaxle/secvential and front and rear finaldrive/diff. This is my goal but hard to achieve though it cost 55000 euro. I am searching race markets and will probably find something in the future but first I will build it street legal. 

[Berglundracing 26]

11 hours ago, Berglundracing said:

True, I have contacted Kenneth Hansen who is a Swedish former 14 time European champ in rallycross and team owner of Hansen motorsport. supporting his son Timmy to be world champion in rallycross. He sell Sadev drivetrains and offered me a transaxle/secvential and front and rear finaldrive/diff. This is my goal but hard to achieve though it cost 55000 euro. I am searching race markets and will probably find something in the future but first I will build it street legal. 

I will also use a modern fuelmanagementsystem. In a radius of 20km from Ängelholm there are 3 supplyer of aftermarket ECU and they all have rolling-road. And of course….Koenigsegg! But they are probablynot  interested:-)

I will use the Maxx ECU mini.

My 17year son have one request….

it should ”pop and bang”, anything else is not interesting

[Arthur 10]

12 hours ago, Berglundracing said:

True, I have contacted Kenneth Hansen who is a Swedish former 14 time European champ in rallycross and team owner of Hansen motorsport. supporting his son Timmy to be world champion in rallycross. He sell Sadev drivetrains and offered me a transaxle/secvential and front and rear finaldrive/diff. This is my goal but hard to achieve though it cost 55000 euro. I am searching race markets and will probably find something in the future but first I will build it street legal. 

The only true (3 diff) transaxle 4wd system I know of, not aftermarket, is Lacer evo. This has front and rear (true, no vicus) diffs in the front gearbox and all can be fitted with quaiffe torsen. But I guess that would only work front engine. Or is the lancer engine rotation by coincidence different then Peugeot? Maybe that is a future option? 

 

https://m.awdwiki.com/en/mitsubishi

 

 

Edited January 17 by Arthur

[welshpug 1,622]

mitsubishi did move the 4G63T from the left to the right side of the engine bay, but I don't know if they reversed its rotation,   Honda H, D and B series engines rotate counter clockwise on the left of the engine bay.

[Arthur 10]

Well it's just a stupid idea. I've though about this "what would I do if I win the lottery" way to much. But in that case I would also call Sadev right away.

 

But it might even be feasible to take a lancer drivetrain, keep the engine mid mounted, and thus the gearbox aft, and reverse the driveshaft though the "hole" made for the exhaust pipe. Maybe with a bike chain and 2 front sprockets or two gears. Just make the axle to rear into an axle to the front instead. 

 

 

[Berglundracing 26]

[Berglundracing 26]

[Berglundracing 26]

One step closer to sandblaster…….

Instead of a rotating-stand I think I rotate it and put it on the ”nose” to be able to weld it under. Have seen one other solution building a sidebar on the side attached to the rollbar and just flipp on the side.

[Berglundracing 26]

Not much done to the car, made a carriage for it though

[Ced1610 5]

On 2/3/2024 at 2:00 AM, Berglundracing said:

Not much done to the car, made a carriage for it though

Nice Tool... and nice work...

Small Question, Thomas, How do you manage to exceed 80 km/h with 2 reductions in line ? ( gearbox + Final reduction...)

Original 205 T16 have quite 1:1 ( 0.8846 ratio) inside the gearbox... reduction is inside final drives... (0.2571 ratio...)

 

 

[SRDT 146]

It's the opposite, regular reduction for the gearbox and 21:20 for the VW Golf Syncro final drives.

 

Nice document bdw, is there a .pdf version online?

[Berglundracing 26]

I have started working on the doors. I will finish them with paint soon just to see how the final look will be. It will have plastic windows with classic vents. Mirrors little to big but it will do.

Hardest part will be the opening hatch.

Edited February 10 by Berglundracing

[Ced1610 5]

7 hours ago, SRDT said:

It's the opposite, regular reduction for the gearbox and 21:20 for the VW Golf Syncro final drives.

 

Nice document bdw, is there a .pdf version online?

i have the entire book….

if info needed, ask

[Ced1610 5]

40 minutes ago, Berglundracing said:

I have started working on the doors. I will finish them with paint soon just to see how the final look will be. It will have plastic windows with classic vents. Mirrors little to big but it will do.

Hardest part will be the opening hatch.

be carefull with front, 205 T16 is about 50mm longer on nose…

[Ced1610 5]

You can find perfectly made front and middle parts from MC racing in france…

not expensive and fast delivery….

 

rear bonnet and rear fender can be found in italia, (tuning epoca) but little bit crap… lot of correction needed…

 

do you plan to do a 200 series 205 T16 or a competition one ?