Embrace The Ew!

[Schumi 2]

Hello. Is there anyone have correct measurement of EW10J4 gti138 heads and EW10J4S gti180 heads combustion chamber volume. And bone stock flow rates.

We build our gti138 engine with wössner 12.5 forged pistons for gti180. Due difference of head we nearly have 14.5 compression ratio even after use double oem headgasket. We thinking laser cut custom thicker headgasket for lowering compression ratio for near 12. Because we rise ignition advance. Even we are using standalone engine management with ecu controlled methanol / water injection kit. 95 octane pump gas and %50 water meth injection still didnt enough for higher advance without knocking. We are thinking to put gti180 head to our car but we cant find one. Last choice making some modification about material lost on combustion chamber for larger volume and lowering compression ratio. Our head already ported and polished (amatory by us). And Kentcams PT60 cams installed.

 

Thank you for any ideas.

[Sandy 189]

There isn't much difference in the chamber volumes. The problem most likely is the material and design of the Wossner pistons, I've experienced problems such as this with them many times, hence why I now never use them I'm afraid.

[Vili 17]

Hello. Is there anyone have correct measurement of EW10J4 gti138 heads and EW10J4S gti180 heads combustion chamber volume. And bone stock flow rates.

We build our gti138 engine with wössner 12.5 forged pistons for gti180. Due difference of head we nearly have 14.5 compression ratio even after use double oem headgasket. We thinking laser cut custom thicker headgasket for lowering compression ratio for near 12. Because we rise ignition advance. Even we are using standalone engine management with ecu controlled methanol / water injection kit. 95 octane pump gas and %50 water meth injection still didnt enough for higher advance without knocking. We are thinking to put gti180 head to our car but we cant find one. Last choice making some modification about material lost on combustion chamber for larger volume and lowering compression ratio. Our head already ported and polished (amatory by us). And Kentcams PT60 cams installed.

 

Thank you for any ideas.

 

Putting thicker headgasket will increase your squish height and make you lose power. Then you would have bad squish and the huge dome in your pistons which both hurt the combustion. You should cut down the dome in the pistons ie put your pistons to the lathe or milling machine. But it is important only cut the dome leave the squish area alone.

[Schumi 2]

Thank you for both answer. I seen people in France using that wössners in gti180 without a problem as I know. 33 cc gti head volume and 40 cc gti180 head volume if that numbers is correct I think 7 cc make a difference like that in our problem.

 

@Vili

 

Sorry but I cant understand when you say squish. Dictionary cant help to understand that word. My idea is like people who make bone stock n/a engine to turbo stop. Thicker gasket increase head height and increase size of volume. And that will decrease compression ratio. But I cant understand when you mean you will lose power. We already have to much compression ratio like 14.5:1. Very big engine displacement trucks using laser cut steel headgasket with sandwiched via 2 oem headgaskets.

 

Removing pistons and cut down to dome is really big pain for us. We want to leave this option at last change.

 

Thank you again both of you.

[welshpug 1,621]

its not a big job to sort the pistons given you have the head off, certainly would cost less and work much better than bodging a spacer plate.

 

 

you do need to take it apart and confirm the numbers, measure the chamber accurately, as well as the pistons.

[Vili 17]

Thank you for both answer. I seen people in France using that wössners in gti180 without a problem as I know. 33 cc gti head volume and 40 cc gti180 head volume if that numbers is correct I think 7 cc make a difference like that in our problem.

 

@Vili

 

Sorry but I cant understand when you say squish. Dictionary cant help to understand that word. My idea is like people who make bone stock n/a engine to turbo stop. Thicker gasket increase head height and increase size of volume. And that will decrease compression ratio. But I cant understand when you mean you will lose power. We already have to much compression ratio like 14.5:1. Very big engine displacement trucks using laser cut steel headgasket with sandwiched via 2 oem headgaskets.

 

Removing pistons and cut down to dome is really big pain for us. We want to leave this option at last change.

 

Thank you again both of you.

 

My spelling might be wrong so don't worry about it. By squish area I mean the area where the gap between the piston and the head is the narrowest. There is a flat area in the heads combustion chamber and a corresponding flat area in the piston. By squish height I mean the distance between the piston and the head.

Idea of squish area is to push the combustion charge (the fuel/airmixture) closer to the sparkplug and make the mixture turbulent. Turbulent mixture burns faster and therefore engine is less likely to knock and makes more power. By increasing the squish height you will decrease the squish effect and make the engine produce less power and more prone to knock.

If your pistons at the moment come flush with the engine deck your squish height is exactly the thickness of your head gasket.

Also the dome in the pistons causes the burn event to take longer. The flame front has to travel longer distance from the spark plug to cylinder walls. So get rid of the unnecessary dome and fit a nice thin head gasket. You probably have quite deep valve cut outs in the pistons so most likely you need to leave small dome to keep the compression ratio high enough.

 

You can also google "squish area". You should find good explanations and pictures about it.

[Schumi 2]

Thank you very much for detailed explanation Vili. Surprisingly this weekend we found complete empty EW10J4S cylinder head except cams. Its looking good and never skimmed. New We need followers, double spring, retainers, lifters, valves etc.etc. We are thinking oversize valves but not sure about that. And I dont know why but Sandy likes bigger followers. J4S head already have 30mm followers but in SuperTech website I found 32.5mm oversize followers. What is benefits of them.

 

Thank you guys.

[Sandy 189]

Bigger followers allow profiles with more rapid valve opening/closing, without the lobes running over the edge of the face and being damaged. Most of the profiles I use are optimised for durability though and not much to be gained beyond a 31mm follower compared to the increase in valvetrain stress.

[Schumi 2]

Thank you Sandy. If its not a secret where can we get 31 mm followers for our head. Or what do you think about supertechs 32.5 mm followers. Did you ever seen or use them.

[Sandy 189]

I tend to use my pal's 32mm Vauxhall fitment ones in these heads, so my profiles are perfectly safe on them. 32.5mm will probably be ok, but 32mm is already getting quite thin on the casting in places. Any bigger might cause problems clearing the head bolts. The other advantage I forgot to mention of bigger followers, is you can use a wider, shorter spring stack. That's an issue, because the install height in these for double springs is very limited, without deepening the seats.

[eTiKeT 0 1 Cars]

Thank you Sandy. If its not a secret where can we get 31 mm followers for our head. Or what do you think about supertechs 32.5 mm followers. Did you ever seen or use them.

Suayb Sevgiler Edited July 18, 2012 by eTiKeT

[Schumi 2]

Is anyone get new information about EW engines. I found some oil pump solutions from 2 different source for higher revs but It's quite expensive.

[Sandy 189]

Simple solution is an external dry sump pump. Problem for some of my customers is regs not allowing that option. How hard do you need to rev it really? It's reliable to around 8500rpm, IMO a 2 litre or above should have a good band of power by then to be truly effective and if you have to go beyond that to get performance, I would argue the package isn't working.

[dave205 19]

Does anyone know the difference between xu and ew heads with regards to throttle bodies. If i had some bodies on an ew head will they bolt straight on to an xu head?

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Does anyone know the difference between xu and ew heads with regards to throttle bodies. If i had some bodies on an ew head will they bolt straight on to an xu head?

 

Surely it's just down to the manifold?

[James504 12]

Port shape of the Ew is very different to that of the Xu. On that alone id say no.

[welshpug 1,621]

and the angle will be very wrong.

[gtmotorsport 0]

Having just put a 206 gti on the road for my girl friend, I have to say how impressed I am with the engine as standard. I am a big fan of the 205 1.9gti even though I don't currently own one, but the 206 engine really is the move forward. Maybe in the future if time and money allow I'll show a 205 an EW engine to it's bay. I'm really impressed with the engine and power delivery/torque, hardly surprised that Sandy likes the engine and can achieve good results with them.

[Anthony 1,000]

I've split the discussion related to the issues with a supercharged EW10 engine to its own topic here

[Biggles 65]

i only know of two, plus a visa ...

 

That would be mine :D

[welshpug 1,621]

where's your project thread then

[Biggles 65]

Here - http://visaforum.freeforums.org/gti-build-t292.html

[welshpug 1,621]

can't see it

[Biggles 65]

Thought you could view it without registering but obviously not. Oh well.

[welshpug 1,621]

thats ok, I registered