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welshpug

repairgeot?

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Matt180

Yep, myself and lee (repairgeot) built them at roughly the same time!. Another lad owned it around my area then it went up Scotland, saw it on ebay a few months back but it got removed :( I was very tempted!, anyone know the new owner?.

 

I am only going on what i have been told about the 3rd car. They might be meaning lee's, they did say it was black where as lee's was serento green.

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pugpete1108

so is this engine a worth while straight swap for a tired gti6 engine?

 

i mean in std trim and not running the vvc.

 

basically if my gti6 engine goes all mayo again could i just pick one up and fit it in (albeit the top mount and maybe driveshafts issues) and run it on my megasquirt ecu?

 

would i need to change the cams for this or can you leave them as is and just not run the vvc?

 

2.0 16v rfk engine from a 206 gti would be the best option for this i guess?

 

tempting............

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welshpug

doesn't megasuirt do VVC?

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pugpete1108

doesn't megasuirt do VVC?

 

i'd have to investigate? not sure if i had mine built with the option or not

 

im sure i could have it sent off to have it added though if it does.

 

sounds even more promising now :) (secretly whispering 'please xu10 blow up')

 

tbh though i dont even know how the vvc/vct mech actually works, i assume electrically controlled at a certain rev range? (ive had two mg vvc's and still didnt get it :ph34r: )

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Sandy

I don't know, but I suspect alot of people are using a simple 0% to 100% duty switch on the VCT. It should be angle modulated by PWM, but simply switching it is alot easier to resolve, but crude.

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TT205

Good thread

 

Didn't someone do an EW conversion in Europe (maybe Holland?) about 3 years ago and said there was a major downside - how low the sump sits as the engine is much more upright than using an Mi16, GTi6 etc

 

Am I wrong or have people found a way round this?

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Matt180

As far as i know only the DTA s60 and Omex 710 can run the vvc fully. Im sure some of the top end ecu's could aswell.

 

I have had no problems with sump clearance in 7 years! speed bumps, ramps, country roads etc no issue at all :D

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GLPoomobile

Thought I'd throw in a curve ball for discussion.

 

Sarty had plans for (IIRC) a 2.4 EW in to a ZX a year or two back. Sandy, I believe he'd been in contact with you about this. Does it ring any bells? Possibly using a 2.2 EW with a diesel crank?

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pugpete1108

I've spoken to my ecu builder and apparently my ecu will handle the vct fine?

 

I think I'm gonna have to do some reading up in the matter

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Sandy

I bought the donor engine off him! I've got 2x 2.3s in build to full race spec currently. One of which, rather hilariously, will be in a road 306.

 

Yes, S60 and 710 can run full VCT no problem, but I've seen alot of people running these (and other VCT engines) on OMEX 600, which is why I suspected they weren't using it properly. I've done numerous Honda, Toyota and BMW VCT engines on the S60/100 and from what I've found, full advance everywhere (as people often remark), only applys if the inital settings are wrong.

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Mad Scientist

I bought the donor engine off him! I've got 2x 2.3s in build to full race spec currently. One of which, rather hilariously, will be in a road 306.

 

Yes, S60 and 710 can run full VCT no problem, but I've seen alot of people running these (and other VCT engines) on OMEX 600, which is why I suspected they weren't using it properly. I've done numerous Honda, Toyota and BMW VCT engines on the S60/100 and from what I've found, full advance everywhere (as people often remark), only applys if the inital settings are wrong.

 

 

Now that I can't wait to see. Pretty please can I see them when I come down??!!

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simpsonrc

sandy,

 

I’m running a EW10J4S on a DTAS60 the vvt solenoid is run from the pwm vvt function in the dta ecu we found that when changing the pwm angle there was no in-between either fully retarded or fully advanced. 85.0= retarded 89.0= advanced witch we checked on a proper oscilloscope against the crank position. Would changing the control vale frequency allow me to find an in-between? Also is the cam target advance map important? Any way on the dyno we found that full advance from around 1500rpm made best power, but it would be interesting to know what it was like in-between the too.

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layton1985

This is a really good topic like a lot of people I don't fully understand vvt either (some peeps don't like to ask, feel stupid like me) I thought that as the rpm went up the valve timing changed not fully advanced or fully retarded? Hearing this makes me think it only has two positions? Does it work best retarded or advanced? If you can only have it retarded or advanced does this affect the fuel consumption dramatically?

 

I think these are good questions as it will teach me and others the key facts about vvt,

 

Also which standalone ecu's support vvt DTA S60 Omex 710 do but does the Omex 600? Etc.

 

I am trying to source all the parts needed to complete this conversion, physically I am very good, look at it and get on with it, knowledge wise not to clued up as I have only really just got the bits and got on with it in the past I am fairly new to this forum and trying to remember all the technical jargon is really hard xu crank cross ew flywheel cross my nans cat cross..... It gets like what the hell?

 

 

So it might be a good Idea to pin a few topics that explain like sandy did at the start of this topic a few threads that go through with a fine tooth comb a chosen engine and the facts and details of that? Just an Idea makes searching for info easier as looking for boost advice on my turbo started me on lots of topics but then they went off talking about other things and I never got any info at all.

 

Matts ew engine and engine bay and the whole car for that matter sets the standards what a mint very fast car good job, sorry to jump off topic.

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ponz

Ok judging by the amount of interest in this thread can we PLEASE have a dedicated EW section?

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Sandy

sandy,

 

I’m running a EW10J4S on a DTAS60 the vvt solenoid is run from the pwm vvt function in the dta ecu we found that when changing the pwm angle there was no in-between either fully retarded or fully advanced. 85.0= retarded 89.0= advanced witch we checked on a proper oscilloscope against the crank position. Would changing the control vale frequency allow me to find an in-between? Also is the cam target advance map important? Any way on the dyno we found that full advance from around 1500rpm made best power, but it would be interesting to know what it was like in-between the too.

 

The cam target advance map is where the cam angle value is selected. For the PWM to work, the frequency needs to be right and the feedback signal from the cam sensor verified. I don't know what you did to get it working or what DTA advised, but if it would only swing from min to max angle, with no inbetween, i'd say it wasn't working correctly.

The initial cam angle and maximum advance angle in true terms, will dictate whether or not full advance is best at all speeds and loads off idle. If the maximum cam advance is a low peak angle, eg 110 dgerees, then it's unlikely to want any less anywhere, but the Honda, BMW and Toyota systems go into the 80s on full advance and that's too advanced to give the best results at some speeds and loads.

Usually, if aftermarket cams are used, full advance needs to be limited, by fitting the cam in an initially retarded position, or limiting full swing mechanically, to prevent valve to piston and/or valve to valve contact. In that case, full advance again might well be the best setting everywhere, but only because it's limited.

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Mandic

How does the head flow compared to say J4RS?

 

 

Thanks!

 

Ziga

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Tom Fenton

Ok judging by the amount of interest in this thread can we PLEASE have a dedicated EW section?

 

As I see it there is this thread with some useful info, plus maybe 1 or 2 other threads.

 

That doesn't warrant a section at the present time.

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welshpug

A section for non original engine series conversions would be more apt IMO, i.e the Honda, V6 and a few others :)

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drmo

We did this conversion into 306 gti a year ago. I have to say the engine mounts are quite different. We had to modify upper one, lower has different mounting points and the one on the gearbox has been made almost from scratch.

 

Some photos:

 

202.jpg

 

203.jpg

 

206.jpg

 

Modification to cooling system needs to be done (rerouting hoses) and some other issues.

 

In my opinion it is a great engine. With dta s60 it produced 197hp and 235Nm of torque (173lb/ft!). It requires a lot of fetling with the vtc system, which results are quite interesting to say the least. Here is a dyno graph, and if I'm informed right this wheren't the last settings:

 

scan0002.jpg

 

Quite a good result for a totaly stock engine (except management).

Edited by drmo

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welshpug

very impressive :D

 

woudlnt have thought the gearbox mounting needed to be made as its a BE gearbox and the end casing is the same as a be3 afaik.

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drmo

The problem is different engine inclination (15 degrees as oposed to 30 degrees on the XU), and because of different top mount the engine has to be a lot higher on the gearbox side. could have dropped the engine lover on the top engine mount but would still need to modify the gearbox mount because of difference in inclination.

Edited by drmo

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welshpug

so its sitting at 30 degrees now?

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