[engine_work] Sleeper 1.6 Project

[Galifrey 1]

Hi all, am about to start converting my white 1.6 205 GTI to Mi16 power.

 

A suitable donor has been aquired 1989 1.6 as shown below.

 

 

 

 

My last project was a ZX12r powered 7 replica, which went to live in cyprus with me, and then got sold on, but this time I dont have the garage space, so some of the work will be professionally commissioned.

 

 

Intention is to keep it as stock looking as possible, but uprate the brakes, suspension etc to cope with the extra power.

 

Wish me luck!

 

Hmm thats wierd, all those pics were resized to 800x600 on photobucket?

Edited September 10, 2009 by Porsche911r101

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

F*ck me! That's a really tidy looking example of an F plate 1.6! Do you have to do this conversion?

 

I support you fully in doing this, as an Mi in a 205 is a blast. But is the 1.6 engine shagged or something? They can be equally rewarding.

 

A little history would be appreciated and then I know the forum would aid you in anyway it can. At the moment my advice - unless it's essential and you are compelled to do so - is leave the thing alone and just restore it.

 

*Breathes*

 

[Galifrey 1]

F*ck me! That's a really tidy looking example of an F plate 1.6! Do you have to do this conversion?

 

I support you fully in doing this, as an Mi in a 205 is a blast. But is the 1.6 engine shagged or something? They can be equally rewarding.

 

A little history would be appreciated and then I know the forum would aid you in anyway it can. At the moment my advice - unless it's essential and you are compelled to do so - is leave the thing alone and just restore it.

 

*Breathes*

 

 

 

Hi Dr Sarty, it looks a lot tidier than it actually is, but I will go into more detail.

 

Gearbox is crunching on 3rd/4th so I suspect synchros. Clutch is pretty much shot, engine feels like a 1.1 rather than my previous 1.6, cam shaft rattle is very loud, suspect it could use a new head.

 

My original thought was to keep it 1.6 and just get the engine rebuilt but with the cost, and not having a garage to do most of the work myself, it would seem cost ineffective at this point. Other members could convince me to go back to plan A.

 

Interior is very good, no worries there, needs a new coin tray is all.

 

Body is in very good condition, but has been touched up a lot, and could really do with some proper paint.

 

Sunroof A1, no leakes, drivers window falls open, replaced the regulator, but no help, probably needs the guides "adjusting".

 

As part of plan A I already had the injectors cleaned, and replaced leads, cap and rotor arm. She runs sweet, just well down on power and very rattly. Its done about 116,000 miles and I think it was well used during a good part of that.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Best of British then.

 

How are you going about the conversion - DIY? You mentioned not having a garage.

 

Do you have the Mi engine, loom and ECU?

 

I'm sure there are some people in Bristol who could give you a hand. Hardgraf (Tom) springs to mind; and he has my 2.2. Rob Thomson's only up the road in Weston Super Mud too.

[Galifrey 1]

Best of British then.

 

How are you going about the conversion - DIY? You mentioned not having a garage.

 

Do you have the Mi engine, loom and ECU?

 

I'm sure there are some people in Bristol who could give you a hand. Hardgraf (Tom) springs to mind; and he has my 2.2. Rob Thomson's only up the road in Weston Super Mud too.

 

Looking for someone to professionally fit the engine, havent found one yet, rest of the suspension work will do myself.

 

After that I can prepare the rest of the bodywork myself for a general tidy up. Thankfully the only rust I have is minimal, but need to do some preventative work where the paint is chipped, remove a few dents using the lever method and uprate the brakes.

 

Off to read more in the suspension section now

[rubyna 4 1 Cars]

If your looking at getting it professionaly done drop taylorspug a pm, excellent work quick

turnaround and very competative prices!! He done mine back about 2-3 mnths ago and got to say he done a quality job. Only downside maybe distance but id happily travel for that extra peace of mind which is why i done so. Or theres Miles hes alot nearer to you, drop them both a pm and see the costs and when they can fit you in etc,.

HTH , Luke..

[James_R 3]

suspension wise you have to ask one question, do you want to retain the *exciting* standard handling of the (legendary) 205, or do you want to make it "better"

 

The stock suspension (if not old and worn out) is actually ok on an Mi as the weight penalty isn't much, it can be other considering having the beam rebuilt (several people on hear can do that) and replacing the beam mounts to solid no decrease in comfort, but less tail waging at the wrong moment.

 

If you want to go more fast road there's millions of options and again if you want to track then there's several options all very costly.

 

First port of call could be GTi-6/Xsara VTS front dampers and some fresh rears.

 

Looks like a nice project base, good luck with it

[Galifrey 1]

If your looking at getting it professionaly done drop taylorspug a pm, excellent work quick

turnaround and very competative prices!! He done mine back about 2-3 mnths ago and got to say he done a quality job. Only downside maybe distance but id happily travel for that extra peace of mind which is why i done so. Or theres Miles hes alot nearer to you, drop them both a pm and see the costs and when they can fit you in etc,.

HTH , Luke..

 

 

Thanks for the tip, have had one offer to do the work so far, also been in touch with a trader north of the border. Another cat has been thrown amongst the pigeons as there is a GTi6 Engine with 1.9box on Fleabay that has just been removed from a 205, complete package ready to bolt in. For the sake of a few kilos in weight it looks like a good buy.

 

Argh decisions decisions

[Galifrey 1]

suspension wise you have to ask one question, do you want to retain the *exciting* standard handling of the (legendary) 205, or do you want to make it "better"

 

Hi James, I always loved the lift off oversteer of my original 1.6, so I am not looking to change that too much. I want to retain the standard front wheels if possible, so that will limit my options regards to brakes/hubs etc I believe (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Was going to tighten everything up with a polybush kit and braces (upper and lower) maybe change to coilovers at the front. Oh and change the ditchfinder tyres!

 

Main task at hand is to get the car up and running mechanically, then I can gradually do the rest of the work. With a sound body and sound mechanics, the rest can be a long term project. Hence I am keen to get the mechanical side right first off.

 

Will almost certainly get the rear beam rebuilt, I am told the rear drums are adequate for road use and also give a better handbrake, so probably wont change those, especially as most braking work is done up front. I was thinking of using grp N rear beam mounts rather than the solid grp A versions, but hadnt made a final decision on that as yet.

 

If I replace any components, I would rather spend the money on new shiny ones as opposed 2nd hand but there will have to be some benefit in doing so. If decent Xsara components are good enough, I am not going to throw money away

Edited September 11, 2009 by Porsche911r101

[James_R 3]

Ahh keeping the standard hooligan handling...loverly

 

I'd suggest

306 GTi-6/Xsara dampers grp N top mounts and std springs

1.6 hubs/shafts with 1.9 calipers ferrodo premier pads

rebuilt 1.6 beam with rebuild drums (just checked and cleaned up) grp A beam mounts, or repalcment front rubbers as most are f**ked now and grp N rears 1.9 rear dampers (or again GTi-6/Xsara items)

 

Have a big grin on your face all day. strut brakes are nice a top one is probabaly of use, but the bottom ones, they flex when you stand on them, can't see them every helping out the subframe, (ever seen the subframe flex when you jack/stand on it)

 

Oh and the best bit a Power steering rack with the PAS ram removed, grin every roundabout

 

[welshpug 1,621]

I'd agree with James's suggestions and your views of the way forward, great cars with their standard handling characteristics and a little bit more grunt

[Galifrey 1]

Thanks James

 

That sounds as though it will meet my objectives nicely (and also satisfy my insurance company that I have Upgraded those items )

 

The great thing about these forums is most of the stuff I want to do has been done before, so a wealth of experience here, I can see posting here was the right thing to do, generic forums just tent to get "you don't wanna do it like that, strip it out, make it lighter blah blah"

 

If I had wanted to do that I could have spent my money on a road legal track day car

[James_R 3]

strip it out make it lighter, fit a cage, diff and uber suspension (then you'll go through engines like dinners

[Galifrey 1]

strip it out make it lighter, fit a cage, diff and uber suspension (then you'll go through engines like dinners

 

hehe

 

I have done the "power to weight" thing already, and whilst it was a lot of fun (400bhp/tonne is not to be sniffed at) it just wasnt practical to jump in whatever the weather and go for a blast. I see people say 888's have great grip in the wet, but trust me, on a 7 with 200bhp they are not so great! Never blew an engine, but did blow a clutch into a million tiny pieces!

 

I don't want ultimate power, just a car I can enjoy down a country lane or drive to town in if need be, but still not be embarrased by modern machinery. I know the chassis is immense fun, even with a 1.6 they were great down a wet country lane or round a roundabout when no plod is about!

 

My other alternative was to go down the zcars mini type route, but I figured this would be as much fun, less hassle to put together, and tbh, a lot cheaper as well!

[Galifrey 1]

Well it looks like its going to be a GTI6 conversion now.

 

Engine has been purchased, Miles has got the job, he is going to supply the Gearbox Xsara VTS I think he said.

 

One question I have, does the BakerBM silicon hose set fit a GTI6 conversion? or is it only a Mi16?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

One question I have, does the BakerBM silicon hose set fit a GTI6 conversion? or is it only a Mi16?

 

I'm sure 75% plus will be straight fits, and the others can be adapted with a joiner or two to reangle.

 

All of the BBM products are excellent, and if I'm not mistaken Miles does silicon hoses anyway, so you could ask and get a one-stop-shop affair.

[Galifrey 1]

I'm sure 75% plus will be straight fits, and the others can be adapted with a joiner or two to reangle.

 

All of the BBM products are excellent, and if I'm not mistaken Miles does silicon hoses anyway, so you could ask and get a one-stop-shop affair.

 

Doh! Never thought of that, ofc he does most of the products I need

 

[Galifrey 1]

Spoke at length to Miles today, looks like my car is in the right hands.

 

Engine being delivered to him this week, and he is going to get the head off to be checked, cleaned up, and 3 angle seats cut and check the bottom end bearings out as well. Once the engine is prepped will drop the car down to him for the conversion. Hoses are not an issue apparently, so thats all fine, once the car gets to him he is going to check all the other bits such as brake lines etc as whilst the engine is out, it seems a good time to replace bits like that.

 

The only part that makes me sad is not being able to be there and diarise (and partake in) the whole project, I shall have to make a few visits and get some pics for the thread. (Sorry Miles).

 

Cant wait to see how it all turns out!

[Andy_C 50]

You're in safe hands with Miles - top man and superb work / attention to detail.

[Galifrey 1]

You're in safe hands with Miles - top man and superb work / attention to detail.

 

Yup, he filled me with confidence speaking to him on the phone.

 

 

Been a slight delay with the engine, the breaker had a few sick note issues this weak, so hasnt removed it, but promises me it will ship on Monday, he threw in the battery box for the hassle

 

I am genuinely excited, spending money on this seems so much more worthwhile than buying another new car. So few have a soul these days.

[Galifrey 1]

Fixed a few issues today:-

 

Seats lowered to cope with my 6'5" frame, did something dumb on the passenger side and tore the carpet (note to self, do the front first in future)

 

Replaced the ignition leads and coil, solved an arcing problem. Now the 1.6 has come to life, albeit still a bit cammy, at least it will get me to Miles' workshop at a decent rate now.

 

When the 1.6 comes out, will make someone a reasonable replacement/spare thats for sure.

 

Managed to procure some new door cards/pockets and electric window kit (thanks Dr Sarty) Which should solve the drivers window dropping down as well as make it a bit nicer overall.

 

Until I get the car down to Miles, I don't want to start buying too many bits, as I want to wait and see what he suggests doing. Hope the engine actually arrives this week!

[Galifrey 1]

Engine has at last arrived at Miles workshop, he will be opening it up later in the week to get the head checked over and valve seats recut. Hope nothing too nasty is discovered, as Miles has said the head has been off before!

 

Probably a n00b didn't change the cambelt and has had to have repairs already, we can but hope all was repaired properly..

 

Got to decide between keeping the 1.6 Wheels now or upgrading to 1.9 versions for bigger brakes, not too worried about the rear, as most braking is done at the front anyway, drums should be able to cope at the back for road use.

 

What have other people done exhaust wise? I think mine has been replaced with a cheap pattern exhaust, and I hear they are the devils spawn and can be too restrictive. I don't want a dustbin job with noise to challenge the loudest subwoofer, just a nice well flowing system with a pleasant tone. I like my hearing so don't want to arrive with ringing in my ears!

 

NB: Miles, if you do take any pics, feel free to post them in this thread.

[taylorspug 7]

A standard 2 piece phase 2 exhaust will be more than adequete for a standard engine. Maybe use the standard downpipe and centre section, then try an aftermarket backbox? Although tbh even a standard exhaust isnt quiet with a 16v lump installed.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I'll try and remember my camera this week, exhaust wise needs to be a min of a 2" system or they do feel strangled slightly, I can either mod the std one or any type of system you like, I know the ones I normally fit are just about right wise noise without being CHAV

[Galifrey 1]

I know the ones I normally fit are just about right wise noise without being CHAV

 

Sounds perfect, I like a bit of an exhaust note, but not one that wakes everyone in the street if I arrive home at 2am!