[engine_work] My New Gti6 Engine

[Edp 67 3 Cars]

Just following on from Dan, my cambelt cover didn't need any cutting out either. What top engine mount did you use?

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/ewP205/MC.jpg

[taylorspug 7]

Mine looks the same as Eds, on std mounts. All i had to do was angle the MC up slightly.

[Alastairh 47]

Mine and Kates are the same aswell. Hopefully should have another in a couple of weeks aswell.

 

Coming along well Matt. Not tempted to give the rockers a tart up like your old MI?

 

Al

[tom_m 0]

 

a bit late now since you've made the pipe up already, but if you cut off the black plastic locking rings you can remove all of the old pipe and up with a nice push fit flange to jubillee clip to and you don't need a hose over hose join.

 

i used a dremmel cutting disc and it worked a treat, one slice across the band and it split off in one piece

[M@tt 77]

cheers for input guys, i've used the standard gti6 top mount so not sure why its so far over, i know the chassis leg has had a bit of a knock at some point so perhaps thats the reason. Yeah i wans't overly keen on cutting the cam cover but really didn't have much of an option

 

Cheers for the tip tom, i might get a another suitbale hose in that case and do away with the hose on hose action

 

its getting close now, i've just been to get my exhaust welded up at lunchtime and so that can got back on tonight , i've got to fit a new driveshaft oil seal as i found the driver side one was leaking when i filled it back up with oil last night, queue the worlds fastest driveshaft removal before the light had totally gone at 9.45 last night, then its just a case of waiting for the ECU sorrentopete is very kindly lending me to get the engine running and connect up the few wires

[Rippthrough 98]

Nearly there then, it'll be worth it for that first go down the road on full beans

[M@tt 77]

right well after a few quite long and stressful evenings i got to the light at the end of the tunnel when we managed to get my gti6 conversion successfully started up this evening

 

First of all i've got to say a massive thanks (in no particular order) to the following people without who i dont think my car would have been finished in time for its MOT this friday and Pugfest at the weekend. (does that sound a bit like the begining of a gay oscar speech??)

 

SorrentoPete - Who very generoulsly express shipped his gti6 ecu on loan to me after i managed to lose mine!!

Paintguy - For several evenings helping with various parts of the conversion wiring, exhaust chopping/fitting

ReturnofJim - making an extended bottom mount/help diagnosing starting issues/general engine conversion genius

Toddy - Invaluable wiring assistance

 

so tonight paintguy, returnofjim and i all gathered for the grand starting of my gti 6 conversion. I'd just sorted connecting up the few wires needed before they arrived.

 

So it was a bit of a disappointment (although tbh not entirely unexpected) when she wouldn't start on the first turn of the key. She would crank over but not start. So after a few moments of "oh bugger" we started the fault diagnosis. First port of call was to check we had fuel and spark. So out came one of the spark plugs and we found that it was dry and also when we put a screw driver in the coil pack and held it against the cam cover there was no spark. Initial thoughts were that perhaps the ecu was locked as it hadn't been used since removing it from its donor 306. It then dawned on me to double check my wiring as i had 2 wires from inside the car which weren't labelled up, one was the switched live for the ecu and the other was the wire to the fuel pump. We checked these again and found i'd connected them up the wrong way round doh! so we quickly uncut the join and connected them up the correct way round and crossed out fingers as we tried again. This time she burst into life straight away!!!

 

she sounded sweet and idled perfectly, however we found that when you gave her a sharp jab on the throttle she bogged down quite heavily before picking up, If you slowly gave her some revs she was fine but anything quick caused her to bog. We checked for any obvious airleaks, but there weren't any, so next thoughts turned to a possible knackered lambda sensor. We thought we'd remove the lambda sensor and see if that affected the running of the engine, which would hopefully give us an indication as to whether it was knackered or not. Onc we unplugged the lambda and started her agian it was obvious she wasn't running right ,sounding quite rough, so we concluded that the lambda sensor was fine. However once we replugged the lambda sensor back in and started her again the engine didn't sound right, it was really lumpy sounding and unlike when it had first started.

 

It was getting a bit dark by now and i was thinking i was going to have major problems, jim then suggested we take the spark plugs out and check them and clean them as he's experienced rough running before from cruddy spark plugs, so we removed the plugs and sure enough they were really heavily covered in soot. W cleaned them up and put them back in and the eninge ran and revved perfectly!!! we can only assume that without the lambda sensor in the fuelling was all over the shop and therefore it fouled up the plugs really badly hence the poor running.

 

so its looking good for its MOT on friday, i have a few more sensor wires to join up tomorrow night after work and fit the battery/ecu box and wire up the tacho convertor then its just a case of taking her for a spin

 

all in all not a bad effort between us doing an engien conversion in less than 2 weeks outside of work.

 

i've got some more detailed pictures and wiring information which i'll put together shortly which will hopefully be of some use to others

[M@tt 77]

right well tonight i finished off the last bits ready for its MOT on friday or so i thought...

 

I sorted out the tacho first of all, by bridging pin 1 of the chip as per PeterT's diagram the rev counter worked a treat, then it was a case of finish connecting up the 205 loom wires to the 306 multiplug and fit the battery box and the slam panel etc.

 

As always things took longer than planned and i struggled getting the battery box to sit nicely so the angle grinder was called into action to help modify it. I then found the negative battery lead wouldn't stretch round the battery box so i had to extend the cable, i plan on makimg a complete new negative lead as i'm not entirely happy with it although it does the job for the moment.

 

Finally it came to the point where i could take her out for a spin but i found the clutch wasn't adjusted properly and i couldn't sleect any gears. so a quick adjustment of the cable and it felt better althoguh something still wasn't quite rigtht, trying to get it into reverse was still quite stiff and i could feel a really heavy vibration of the engine through the gearstick which could mean only 1 thing, the exhaust manifold is touching the L bracket on the subframe

 

at this point it was pretty much pitch black so i couldn't see anything or even have a decent feel as the engine was hot. So i'm going to have to have a look at it tomorrow after work although i dont think theres a lot i can do about it before the MOT i may have to cancel the MOT and plans to take the car to pugfest

 

i'm hoping that it could just be touching that little cap that sits ontop of the L bracket nut as it does stil quite a bit higher than the bolt head itself although that still means its a bit close for comfort.

 

Out of interest has anyone lowered that bracket on teh subframe that the L bracket bolts to? i'm just wondering if that might be a possibility to gain some extra clearance?

Edited July 2, 2008 by M@tt

[GLPoomobile 958]

Out of interest has anyone lowered that bracket on teh subframe that the L bracket bolts to? i'm just wondering if that might be a possibility to gain some extra clearance?

 

I was actually just going to suggest that before I came to that sentence. I've got a subframe just across the room from me right now, and there's plenty of free space below the L bracket. I mean the bit it mounts to is about 3 inches tall so I would have thought you could take a centimeter off of it quite safely. I'm sure the rods would still be able to cope with the slight change of angle. I suppose the key question is, with that change of angle, would it bring the rods in to contact with anything else?

 

But anyway, it certainly sounds like the quickest course of action (I'm assuming you have a welder). I'm sure you could drop the whole subframe, do a cut 'n' shut on the bracket and refit the s/f in a couple of hours.

[M@tt 77]

yeah the only thing is that isn’t the bracket high so the L bracket clears the steering rack? but i'm guessing the there’s probably some room for manoeuvre in lowering it slightly

[jackherer 543]

yeah the only thing is that isn't the bracket high so the L bracket clears the steering rack? but i'm guessing the there's probably some room for manoeuvre in lowering it slightly

 

I'm stuck at the same point on my gti6, the rack wont be a problem I don't think, there is a fair bit of space there.

 

But once the L bracket is lower it looks like the rod will be at a pretty severe angle and might hit the other arm on the gearbox, I'm thinking that a bit of lowering of the bracket the L arm is on and some reangling of the L bracket itself might be the answer, its still going to be very close to the mani and downpipe in places though, I'm not happy with it yet at all.

[M@tt 77]

so is yours the case that its actually hititng a rod or hitting the bracket itself, i've not been able to determine the exact problem on mine as yet as it was dark last night.

 

have you extended your bottom mount fork? Toddy has done it the same as me ie standard moutns and just extended the bottom fork and he hasn't had this issue although he extended his fork by approx 12mm and i did mine 25mm so as i've extended mine further obviously the end of manifold is closer to the L bracket.

 

returnofjim and i will be on the case as soon as i get home tonight from work so hopefully between us, an angle grinder and a welder we should come up with a solution

[welshpug 1,622]

wouldn't a shorter r/h mount and a non-extended rear mounting fork not solve this problem?

[jackherer 543]

so is yours the case that its actually hititng a rod or hitting the bracket itself, i've not been able to determine the exact problem on mine as yet as it was dark last night.

 

have you extended your bottom mount fork? Toddy has done it the same as me ie standard moutns and just extended the bottom fork and he hasn't had this issue although he extended his fork by approx 12mm and i did mine 25mm so as i've extended mine further obviously the end of manifold is closer to the L bracket.

 

returnofjim and i will be on the case as soon as i get home tonight from work so hopefully between us, an angle grinder and a welder we should come up with a solution

 

I've not extended a bottom fork yet, there is a standard one fitted to the subframe but not bolted to the engine so I can swing it about and this doesn't look like it will make much difference. It looks like the long rod from the gearstick to the L arm will hit the downpipe flange and the long rod from the L arm to the gearbox will hit a manifold runner.

 

wouldn't a shorter r/h mount and a non-extended rear mounting fork not solve this problem?

 

No it would make it worse.

 

Has anyone got pics of the gear rods in a 306? Do they run very close to the manifold?

[welshpug 1,622]

yes pretty close as well, not the best picture but it gives you an idea, the yellow blob central to the exhaust tunnel is the top of the L shaped linkage.

 

 

I'm sure I have another better picture.

Edited July 3, 2008 by welshpug

[welshpug 1,622]

a picture I remember seeing of Magic's solution

 

 

 

engine dropped 20mm, std length rear mount fork.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

They do sit fairly close, A bad picture but it may help

[taylorspug 7]

If your car is lowered any more than a sensible amount the lower engine mount solution wont work long term, it stretches the shafts just a bit too much, especially on power with a decent amount of steering lock. Ive witnessed the snapped shaft and resulting hole it made in the bottom of the gearbox...

 

Whatever you do this is a very tight area of the '6 conversion, you need to get your measurements just right either with the bottom mount or re-angling the manifold in order to fit the manifold in between the linkage and bulkhead. In many cases it requires the engine to go in and out a couple of times.

 

In your case Matt id try slightly shortening the extended bottom mount, in order to bring the manifold back up away from the subframe/gear mount.

[BuD 0]

I have been lucky with mine and havent had this problem.

 

I extended my mount 15mm which was (on mine!!) the absolute minimum that the down pipe will clear the lip on the bottom of the bulkhead when you are fitting the down pipe.

 

EDIT: I too tho am very close on the master cylinder, I have angled up with washers and have had to file the cam cover a little. It basically rests on the side of the camblet cover but no cutting needed.

Edited July 3, 2008 by BuD

[M@tt 77]

right well its all sorted (well almost ) the issue wasn't what we intiially thought it was. The gear rods aren't hitting the exhaust manifold at all, and neither is the manifold hitting the L bracket so our measurements were all good

 

It's turned out to be a combination of my home made quick shift and and improperly fitted exhast section.

 

Basically my quickshift works by extending the bottom of the gearstick by about an inch, thus reducing the throw of the gear stick during gear changes. However this has had the effect that this has been hitting the bend in the centre section of the exhaust pipe just where the gearstick is. Also when i was chopping the downpipe down to fit i'd removed my magnex backbox as i was worried about it getting scratched and dented lifting it on and off all the time as i was trial fiitng it. As a consenquence the centre section of the pipe doesn't sit nicely in the middle of the tunnel and is closer to the gearstick on one side. Infact it knocks against the side of the exhaust tunnel on occasions when the exhaust is vibrating quite heavily. So its going to be a simple case of grinding the flange off again and then this time poistioning the exhaust in the flange with the back box on and on its hangers and makign sure it sits nicely in the centre of the tunnel and clear of the gearstick before welding it up. It might sound obvious but its one of those things you can easily miss during a conversion As an interim fix we've bent the bottom of the quick shift out slightly so its not catching as bad but it still catches in reverse on occasion.

 

We also experienced the car running on 3 cylinders on its first test run and after a bit of diagnosis we discovered the one of the pins in the ecu plug had been pushed back and so wasn't contacting with the ecu and it just so happened to be one of the coilpack wires.

 

Anyway i've decieded i will stick it in for its MOT tomorrow and let them know about the exhaust and what i'm going to do so hopefully they'll pass me on that, they're pretty good on that front so fingers crossed.

 

So lessons learnt are;

1) you can fit the gti6 on standard mount and just extend the bottom mount fork although there is no set measurement as it seems to vary slightly between cars.(12-25mma s a rough figre)

2) When cutting and refitting the exhaust flange make sure you have the whole exhaust system hung in place as it does make a differnce.

 

Cheers

 

Matt

Edited July 3, 2008 by M@tt

[Peetypug 5]

the 205 i've bought with the 16v engine in is on standard mounts with just the lower fork extended.

But its very close to the m/c and rocker cover.

So now i know yours is ok like that i'm gona do mine on the bm mounts that i bought.

But i'll tilt the m/c with washers.

Good luck with the mot

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

Hi,id like to take the gti6 out of one of my 205s and swap it for the mi16 unit in the other 205, is there a hell of a difference in wiring looms????

cheers

Liam

[M@tt 77]

wiring the gti6 is a piece of piss, 3 wires and your away, switched live, fuel pump and starter. you'll need to bring the looms with the engines but its not that hard at all.

 

Oh my car just failed its MOT on the bloody front washer pump not working, but thats all , in all the rush it was the one thing i forgot to test properly!

not sure if its the pump itself or the wiring but Chris (309pug) has got his mot there as well in a bit so going to test the pump for me and if its knackered then i'll pick up a new one on my way to collect it and they said they'll issue it with a pass if i replace it there and then. So assuming thats ok the plan for tomorrow is to remove exhaust and redo the flange first thing before setting off for pugfest

[Super Josh 4]

Nice one Matt My money is on a dirty connection to the washer pump.

 

 

 

Josh

[returnofjim 0]

good effort m@tt, all ready for the fest then?