[engine_work] Project Sarty

[DrSarty 100 1 Cars]

Thanks Rich. I've got you to thank remember for the sump stuff; cheers.

 

If I get figures anywhere near yours I'll be uber happy .

 

And...errm....21,000 views!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rob Thomson 6]

When I drive down the M5 to drop in to see Bonzai, d'ya fancy meeting up with us Merruz? I was thinking of tying up with Rob Thomson too as he's in Weston. Just a thought.

I've only just spotted this. That would be a pleasure if you do make it here.

 

Does Rob know you are planning to drop in? He might need a bit of time to prepare his argument if you are going to re-ignite the moon landing conspiracy debate LOL. You f***ing retard

It sounds like I've got plenty of time to think of some more up-to-date derogatory remarks. You f*cking spacco.

[Batfink 201]

'spacco' ha ha ha ha

[kyepan 291]

And...errm....21,000 views!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

that was me with my auto refresh macro running for about 6 hours... bumped it up a fair bit to make you feel loved.

[DrSarty 100 1 Cars]

that was me with my auto refresh macro running for about 6 hours... bumped it up a fair bit to make you feel loved.

 

Yeah thanks Justin; I'm feelin' the love, you spacco retard .

 

Anyway. Can you feel out Jaipur in Hatfilth ref our curry on the 21st Nov? It's looking like a comfortable 18 peeps.

Edited September 24, 2008 by DrSarty

[pronta 1]

Awesome Rich, ive just re-read this thread from way back and im really pleased youve got it up and running If you want some emerald maps give me a shout and ill email you mine.

 

Rich

 

If you would like to send some maps to me that would save some time .

 

Guy.

 

Richie alls well and progress will start again on sunday/monday when i get this 406 out of the way.

 

G.

[pronta 1]

Thank you for the moderation, its my forum address.

 

I am happy to have it on open forum. .

 

mk2_16v@hotmail.com

[pronta 1]

Right,

 

Its like this I have just about everything ready for our big RR day on monday,

 

The last few things are just slotting into place with the now cherry red bonnet being picked up on saturday morning and the inlet manifold(mk2) now on and very sweet looking,

 

The only things that are causing a bloody issue is where to put the ECU (glove box at the mo) AND

Where do I pick up the tacho for the dash ?

 

I've got the dongle for the emerald in and sorted that drives it, all I need is the pick up to make the needle move and being a ****** pug I have not the faintest where to look less I strip the dash down and knowing these things I know I'm gonna break something getting it out.

 

PLEASE HELP. I so want Rich to come back and find it all lovely jubely.

 

 

On a further note it spins and fires first time and boy you should hear this thing god its gonna be fun, really fun I'm almost tempted to do something like this myself with the 406 turbo engine and box I've got festering in the drive.

 

If I get pointed in the right direction by one of you amiable souls I will be forever gratefull.

 

Guy

Edited October 23, 2008 by pronta

[pronta 1]

LOL.

 

After a little search of the technical on the site i found what I was looking for...........

 

Under the dash the 2 brown plugs are wired as follows:

 

9 PIN BROWN

 

1 Reverse Light

2 Reverse Light

3 Coolant Light

4 Coolant Meter

5 Alternator

6 Oil Pressue Meter

7 Oil Temp Meter

8 Oil Pressure Light

9 Switched Positive

 

 

6 PIN BROWN

 

1 Not Used

2 Fuel Pump

3 Earth

4 Tacho

5 K Light (not used)

6 Starter Motor

 

 

So I pulled it through got the iron out and bobs your uncle and fannies her fella

 

It all seems to be tickety boo just got to mount that emerald somewhere suitable now.

 

Ideas guys ?

 

.

Edited October 23, 2008 by pronta

[welshpug 1,678]

will it go where the original ecu was?

[DrSarty 100 1 Cars]

GUY

 

You are a sausage! We've spoken about both of these things on the phone.

 

1) You never told me you didn't have the rev counter working. There is a wire in the engine bay that I left for you, it's grey I believe and even has a piece of masking tape on it saying 'tacho' or 'rev counter'.

 

This is in the main bundle/loom going through the bulkhead grommet just under the dash. I remember telling you that I'd left the tacho wire (labelled) for you in the engine bay, because I didn't know whether you would attach it the ECU in the engine bay or in the car.

 

Look for the wire please, and connect it to whatever Emerald have supplied you either in the engine bay or pull it back into the cabin and plug it in inside. I'm sure it is grey, but to check, look in the blue document wallet and you'll see a page showing the wiring colours I used for the loom.

 

EDIT: As I posted this I see you've sorted it. Would've been easier if you'd listened to me you nana. Still, no harm done, but needless worry.

 

2) I also suggested to you mount the ECU where the old one was, up under the dash to the RHS of the steering column. This was because it's a good place for it and it would help take up the extra loom by running it left to right under the dash. There is a metal plate where the old ECU was, just reach up or look up and you'll see the Sony xover; this is where it should go.

 

Let us all know how you get on please.

 

Top job chief.

 

DrS

On his way to Muskat on a Hercules because our RAF Tristar didn't make here to Kandahar tonight!!

Edited October 23, 2008 by DrSarty

[Bonzai 2]

will it go where the original ecu was?

 

thats where mine is

[Super Josh 4]

Nice work Boys Roll on Monday Eh?

 

I expect a full write-up, with the obligatory picture of Dave W with his head under the bonnet, attaching a bracket that he has just made to get the TBs balanced before the mapping can commence And of course, the all important graph

 

 

 

Josh

[pronta 1]

Well its like this boys its now late in the day and the 205 is parked on the drive awaiting picking up in the morning.

 

If it aint ready now it aint ever going to be.

 

The bonnets on , reg plates on the bonnet.

 

The bodies are as finished as they are ever going to be short of a second fuel pressure reg which we may put on tomorrow depending on what dave says.

 

The wish bones are all torqued up.

 

All the lights and washers and ancilleries are in and working for the mot (which we're hoping to get done once its mapped)

 

Then I get to suffer his driving on the way home. lol. (he'll bitch about that comment)

 

I have to say all the little details have been done too like all the black platics have been cleaned and polished accordingly.

Rich has been fooling with his stereo and fitting a bass cube.

 

Rich is secretly poohing it about tomorrow but I think we have nothig to worry about.

 

Fingers crossed boyo we have done all we can possibly do.

 

 

 

WTS for footage and pics tomorrow evening.

 

 

G.

[kyepan 291]

good luck for the mapping.

 

remember it needs running in first, so he can't wharp it on the way home either

[Batfink 201]

i disagree. To bed in the rings it needs a good thrashing at 70% for a couple of miles then drive it hard. Make sure you stay away from duel carriageways and motorways as much as you can as a constant speed is bad

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

This is always a catch 22, the Bearing's on these engine's need careful running in but as said the ring's need a good bit of right foot. I've always gone careful for a good 1000 miles and never had a problem, touch wood

[base-1 17]

What's to run in on the bearings, nothing should be touching?

[DrSarty 100 1 Cars]

Well I'm poopered peeps, it's been a frickin' long day.

 

The ultimate conclusion from today is that the team at Emerald are frickin' ace. 10am until nearly 7pm they stuck around. Not all of them mind - they had homes to go to - but good 'old' Dave stuck by us as, just as we were about to leave with me grinning like a Cheshire cat....the clutch cable snapped!

 

That wasn't the only hiccup of the day, but it did rev to 7,600 today and never really missed a beat.

 

I won't lie and say it was, or even now is perfect, as it still has a few gremlins to iron out, based on not being 100% ready for a beating on a rolling road.

 

So another very important thing I've learnt, which perhaps I can pass on to others similarly new to this mapping experience is to be prepared. Go through some real basics, and DO NOT go there if you can't put your hand on your heart and say everything's as good as you can get it. For example we're still having issues sealing the R1 bodies to the new inlet runners. We didn't have time to make lips or flares to seat the silicon hose joiners for example, which in fact are too wide a diameter for the job at that end.

 

A further issue, again in this most important area that shouldn't have been in that state today (and again is slightly embarrassing), is the silicon joiners struggling to hold onto the bodies. We have that in hand now, as the correct OE Yamaha rubber joiners have a square profiled rib inside the neck to mate and seat in the groove on the metal output neck of the throttle bodies. Obviously Yamaha know what they're doing, and we we learnt too late that most people use these OE rubber joiners when they use bike carbs/bodies to get an air tight seal. My rubbers don't turn up until tomorrow which proves my point. I was late, the car wasn't really - hand on heart - ready.

 

And there's more, and I was very lucky. We only burst one small 90deg coolant hose today; in fact it split 1" on the outer bend, spraying Pronta with 86degC coolant. I've never seen him move so fast ! Luckily, and this is a top tip too, I had taken a complete set of spare hoses with us because mine were a concoction of oldies in reasonable nick. My point proved again: not really ready. I had a set of red Baker BBM silicons with me which I will be fitting shortly; it's just that now I'm one hose ahead of schedule .

 

The gearbox drain plug shot out mid power run after all of the careful work Dave had put in sorting out all of the load sites which was an interesting event. Then on looking underneath to clean up and refit it, we found the engine oil sump plug in only finger tight!!!

 

These simple checks and words of warning but above all honest advice, are not purely aimed at when you're at the mappers. Any one of these things could've happened on the way home rather than in a place where it was warm, well lit, with s*it loads of tools where it was easy to fix. We actually called out the AA to do the clutch cable as we couldn't be arsed.

 

I have to replace the main battery as we thank that's fooked, even though it started bang on every time today, as the journey home saw the engine stall sometimes on lift-off coming to roundabouts and junctions, suffering quite a bit of over-run popping which was almost embarrassing.

 

On the journey home the indicators packed up and after stalling the battery was too weak to start it, even though on the RR the Emerald system was showing 13.8v across the battery, which means the alternator's OK. This weak battery and possible poor sealing of the bodies to the inlet - partly due to them not having a support bracket - all contributed to a not too rewarding drive home.

 

HOWEVER!!!!

 

We made today 188lbft peak torque, in a nice 'fat as f***' power delivery curve, on tap, right in the road-use rev range where I wanted it.

 

The slightly surprising peak BHP figure of 195 (both at flywheel figures on Emerald's rolling road), is most likely down to a tight new engine not yet supple, and the technical lesson proving itself here (as mentioned before in this thread) about injector placement in relation to the head; in this case being too far away. This can create a fuel drop off, in particular on long runners, which is avoided by having the injectors firing right into the inlet port, or even better still at the base of the valves, to gain some heat I believe.

 

We also played around with removing the crank case pressure operated R1 slider chokes we've talked about in this thread. They're out now, but Yamaha again must know what they're doing, so when the OE Yamaha joiners go on these will go back in, which should help the on-the-road throttle response. On the rollers it was sweet and crisp, despite the R1 OE throttle pot being far too sensitive, but on the road, probably coupled with jiggling bodies, weak battery and weak joiner sealing, made the journey home either warp factor 14, sensible plod or a struggle to get moving due to a flat spot. It was interesting at roundabouts I can tell ya! Accelerated like a bitch on heat though !!! The throttle response was mega once driving, but on lifting off for junctions etc there was nothing unless you were mega delicate or hoofed it, which was ludicrous .

 

So where now? I'll post today's curve once I've scanned it. Tomorrow I'll sort out the bodies and also support them with a bracket. Taming the throttle linkage severity - which we always new was coming - will happen after the weekend. It is now quite clear to see why dedicated bodies like Jenveys are available, as the bike route is fraught (sp?) with a few compatibility issues, the throttle pot and linkage being two of them.

 

We are adding a second bank of injectors, again I would say next week. The second bank of GTI6 injectors (I NEED THESE BY THE WAY - DOES ANYONE HAVE A SET FOR SALE PLEASE?), will have bosses made to be welded in place firing the injectors straight into the inlet ports. The Emerald is all set-up to control this second bank, which will actually be the main set. Ironically, with this second set of injectors, fuel economy will improve and hydrocarbons will drop, as less unburnt fuel (which was probably also causing the over-run pops too) will enter the system to be wasted. Throttle response will improve again and we'll make even more torque. The outer set (in the bodies) will be bank 2 and the inner head set will be primary bank one.

 

So I don't know what you all think, but I can say I've truly enjoyed every minute, grazed knuckle and painful cheque. It looks pretty sweet with a newly painted bonnet and revamped black trims all round, and sounds stupendous, bangin' out through the Maniflow exhaust. It's quite a bit noisier on the road, so I may tame it at a much later date, but the throttle body bark is mega and the torque stupendous, and there whenever you want it.

 

I still have a bit of tinkering, but it's so close to what I wanted now that I can almost say my journey is over. She's insured with Sky for £421 fully comp (thanks Ollie and Luke), and the graph, photos and video will be up shortly.

 

Thanks for everything, everyone.

 

Rich

 

P.S. Need a set of good GTI6 injectors don't forget!!

Edited October 27, 2008 by DrSarty

[Batfink 201]

Thats a good result. Most likely with the niggles ironed out you will gain a bit more power but the torque shows its a very capable engine.

[DrSarty 100 1 Cars]

Thats a good result. Most likely with the niggles ironed out you will gain a bit more power but the torque shows its a very capable engine.

 

Thanks Kev.

 

It feels more solid and planted than before too, especially with the plate diff. Pulls like a train really isn't the word!

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention - and you'll see this in the graph - probably due to injector positioning and the angle at the top of the manifold as the runners meet the head, Dave said the engine kind of ran out of puff at 5.8k. This will be the reason for the deflated BHP figure, as if peak torque was just after 4k, then imagine how the BHP would stack up if it kept going up to over 7k!!! (Note that BHP is a calc dependant on RPM!!)

 

We'll keep tinkering, you'll see.

Edited October 27, 2008 by DrSarty

[16v205 9]

Ive been waiting for your results and there well worth it rich, thats a great torque figure youve got going on there. Get that graph up soon

 

Btw ive a set of gti-6 injectors if you need some

 

Rich

[jimistdt 1]

Well done that man. I imagine it'll be like taking off in plane! You've now got a car to match your personality, fast and furious . Well done to all involved. Looking forward to seeing the lil beast in May.

[base-1 17]

quite a bit of over-run popping which was almost embarrassing

 

Wash your mouth out!! This is actually impossible

 

 

 

That's a monster torque figure, excellent. Can't wait to see the improvements once things are fixed

[DrSarty 100 1 Cars]

Thanks for the comments.

 

Injectors bought. Cheers Rich (16v205).

 

DrS

'Big Fish:Little Fish: Cardboard Box'

Edited October 28, 2008 by DrSarty