What Cars Did The 8v Turbo Engine Come In?

[johnrobertgordon 0]

Standard torque on an xu10 is more than the TT produced. Bhp is lower though.

Torque peaks at some stupid figure too, bout 4000rpm.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

I drove a 406 turbo the other day and whilst it had great low down torque it was positively wheezy at 5k plus. I suspect this is due to the cam, inlet manifold exhaust etc. Personally I think turboing an xu9ja is a better bet although dearer

 

Id agree. If you intend on just leaving the engine stock, then obviously the XU10 is the better/cheaper option. But if you want to have some more power 200+ then that will involve changing manifold/turbo/management in which case Id start with the XU9, as all you need is the aforementioned manifold/turbo/management which you be acquiring for the XU10 anyway. The XU9 suits the sporty 205 far better than the XU10. However, if you want 250+ then the iron block XU10 would be better (although youll end up junking almost all the other standard parts anyway.

[sonofsam 5]

Oh OK - you aren't currently running a lot of torque at the moment, so that would explain it.

 

180lb/ft of torque not alot then?!

 

Inlet manifold is similar design to T16. Cam is mild, but still able to make good power. Exhaust manifold

is only restrictive over 190ish, so in my mind the only real limiting factor to running out of puff, is

the small turbo. 16V head will bolt straight on and the bottom end can handle 300 with standard internals.

In my mind tuning opportunities are endless!

 

What does the TT redline at TEKNO?

[TEKNOPUG 3]

180lb/ft of torque not alot then?!

 

Inlet manifold is similar design to T16. Cam is mild, but still able to make good power. Exhaust manifold

is only restrictive over 190ish, so in my mind the only real limiting factor to running out of puff, is

the small turbo. 16V head will bolt straight on and the bottom end can handle 300 with standard internals.

In my mind tuning opportunities are endless!

 

What does the TT redline at TEKNO?

 

Dunno where you have got 180lbs/ft from but nevermind.

 

The XU10 does have slightly more torque than a TT but this can be explained by the extra ccs and the inlet manifold, which is tuned for low down torque (high air speed at low rpm) great for low down torque crap for high power.

 

Whats of more interest is that the 205TT makes in excess of 170bhp using a smaller bore, worse flowing head than the XU10 (allegedly), less capacity, less boost, same turbo, same compression ratio and runs on Mickey Mouse engine management; yet its still has over 20bhp more than the XU10 in stock form. MPG is also very poor with the XU10.

 

Strange indeed.

 

If I had the money to go out and buy the relevant parts for a 220bhp turbo 205 in one go Id start with an XU9 engine as with modern management you can keep the standard cr for even more power manifold, turbo, management, done.

 

Thats just my preference from personal experience of both engines. However, the vast majority of people (including myself) arent in a position to do this. Therefore installing a stock XU10 first and then upgrading as and when finances allow, is the obvious route. There is no doubt that the XU10 is capable of big reliable power, its just that it was never designed to be anything other than a lazy lump to pull sales reps along the motorway. Whereas the XU9 in the Gti has all the right characteristics youd want from an engine in the first instance.

 

With regards to redline in a TT it runs the standard ecu so it will be the same as any other GTi. Peak power is just under 6k remember that the cam is stock (as is everything else bar the dished pistons).

 

I am quite vexed though that you dont get torque steer Sam. When I had the standard 1.9 box, you could spin the wheels in 3rd in the dry. This is not now the case with the longer box and Quaife but you can still get torque steer in 3rd if you bury the throttle.

 

Maybe the extra weight of the iron-block is having a positive effect on your car?

[danpug 1]

Out of interest, what is your normal mpg from the TT?

[johnrobertgordon 0]

Dunno where you have got 180lbs/ft from but nevermind.

 

The XU10 does have slightly more torque than a TT but this can be explained by the extra ccs and the inlet manifold, which is tuned for low down torque (high air speed at low rpm) great for low down torque crap for high power.

 

 

Thats why it makes it a bad choice as a PERFORMANCE engine. Its engineered to slog down motorways everyday.

By the time you turn it into a PERFORMANCE engine you will have raplaced all the major components, being left with only the standard block...

 

Its for this reason I stand by my feelings saying that the MI16 is a cheaper and easier route when considering an engine upgrade.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

I agree upto a point where you start adding TB's to an Mi16 - the a turbo 8v becomes more cost efficient.

[johnrobertgordon 0]

16V head will bolt straight on

 

Are you sure? I thaught the oil ways were different, also you would have problems with the piston crown shape.

 

I may be wrong though, would be worth looking into though.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Out of interest, what is your normal mpg from the TT?

 

Probably around 30mpg if I drive like Miss Daisy (motorway cruises etc).

You have to remember that off boost its just a normal GTi engine (albeit a low comp one). Obviously if you drive like Ari Vataanen everywhere then it can easily drop into the teens. If you own a GTi then mpg shouldnt really be a concern (youve bought the wrong car if it is), I was just giving it as an example of the relative efficiencies of the two engines.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Are you sure? I thaught the oil ways were different, also you would have problems with the piston crown shape.

 

I may be wrong though, would be worth looking into though.

 

 

You'll also need a different inlet and exhaust manifold. It's hardly a plug'n'play upgrade. An Mi16 head can be made to fit an XU9 block given a little work. But again, inlet/exhuast manifolds will need to be changed (and it's a bit pointless when you may as well fit the whole Mi16 engine). Bare in mind that the iron XU10 (8v/S16/GTi-6) is nowhere near as trick as the T16 (forged crank etc) iron block.

[danpug 1]

Thanks, thats better than my tired 1.9 manages!

[sonofsam 5]

173lb/ft is what I've just found of the net, 180 was listed on here somewhere!

I think if I had my time over again, and know what I know now I would look more into the Xu9, but as you say the xu10T is a complete package. That is the route I have chosen so I will follow it till the end

 

There is a recent post by davetibbs '16v head on a 2.0l turbo block' wich states I think it bolts straight on,

not that im really intersted in that for the moment you understand.

 

Yes maybe the iron block does have a positive effect, so might ALL the brand new suspension(309 front back,solid mounts, koni's)/drivetrain components I fitted along with four brand new tryes all being the same make(quite a novelty for me) Or maybe Im not driving it hard enough, wich I doubt,lol

Plus it has the boost controller wich is wheel speed dependant?

 

All I can say is Im very happy with my car for the moment, and thats what matters to me

[daza4 24]

Could someone confirm where the different XU9 and XU10 engines come from. Thinking of doing this modification after I have had some fun with my webers on my 1.9 gti!!!!.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

173lb/ft is what I've just found of the net, 180 was listed on here somewhere!

I think if I had my time over again, and know what I know now I would look more into the Xu9, but as you say the xu10T is a complete package. That is the route I have chosen so I will follow it till the end

 

There is a recent post by davetibbs '16v head on a 2.0l turbo block' wich states I think it bolts straight on,

not that im really intersted in that for the moment you understand.

 

Yes maybe the iron block does have a positive effect, so might ALL the brand new suspension(309 front back,solid mounts, koni's)/drivetrain components I fitted along with four brand new tryes all being the same make(quite a novelty for me) Or maybe Im not driving it hard enough, wich I doubt,lol

Plus it has the boost controller wich is wheel speed dependant?

 

All I can say is Im very happy with my car for the moment, and thats what matters to me

 

Mine has all new components too - may I suggest some heavier footwear Sam?!

 

Could someone confirm where the different XU9 and XU10 engines come from. Thinking of doing this modification after I have had some fun with my webers on my 1.9 gti!!!!.

 

 

Which modification?

[sonofsam 5]

Mine has all new components too - may I suggest some heavier footwear Sam?!

 

 

lol, I drive to and from work in my steel toe cap boots

I'll try and get it to T/S, just for you

[TEKNOPUG 3]

lol, I drive to and from work in my steel toe cap boots

I'll try and get it to T/S, just for you

 

 

It would be a weight off my mind!

[sonofsam 5]

Thats why it makes it a bad choice as a PERFORMANCE engine. Its engineered to slog down motorways everyday.

By the time you turn it into a PERFORMANCE engine you will have raplaced all the major components, being left with only the standard block...

 

Yes agreed it's not a performance engine as stock and your entitled to your opinion, but I only intend to replace the Turbo/manifold and possibley fit a different cam, so I think your being a little over zealous there!

 

Weather it makes it more of a performance engine I dont know just yet, but it will surely be fast

 

 

It would be a weight off my mind!

 

Well that was fun! Sorry my freind, but I hope you have a strong mind. 3rd gear 0.7boost, she just bit the ground and took off, in a straight line. Had a little wheelspin round a corner(most likely mud from tractors), but really nothing to write home about.

Edited April 20, 2007 by sonofsam

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Your car is broken - I feel for you

 

lol

 

You have a boost controller? What are the settings like?

[inferno 1]

sam try disconnecting the gearbox speed senser, and mayber the amal valve to force over boost and see if it goes all crazy on you!

 

my zx didnt run a wheel speed senser and it span a bit, nothing drastic mind but i didnt try to spin everywhere!

 

never really noticed tourque steer, but then the box's ive used have standard diffs, i always felt it in my rsturbos...

[sonofsam 5]

I know its gutting all that hard work, lol

 

 

Boost controller is a three way solenoid operated by the ECU via the gearbox speedsensor I would guess.

Numbers wise it's 0.5bar normal with 0.7 as overboost wich I am seeing more regulaly now.

It's nice to have it working again, as the MBC I used before gave plenty of wheelspin as

the boost came on very aggresively, it feels very modulated now.

I guess thatis the key factor in controlling wheelspin, this is why I decided to go the way of the chip

as it means I get to keep the in house boost controller.

 

lol inferno, Yeh when the solenoid broke before, it went into serious overboost, pulling 1.5 bar, spinning in 5th@70mph, was mucking fental! I think I'll just leave it be TBH mate

Edited April 20, 2007 by sonofsam

[johnrobertgordon 0]

I know its gutting all that hard work, lol

Boost controller is a three way solenoid operated by the ECU via the gearbox speedsensor I would guess.

Numbers wise it's 0.5bar normal with 0.7 as overboost wich I am seeing more regulaly now.

It's nice to have it working again, as the MBC I used before gave plenty of wheelspin as

the boost came on very aggresively, it feels very modulated now.

I guess thatis the key factor in controlling wheelspin, this is why I decided to go the way of the chip

as it means I get to keep the in house boost controller.

 

lol inferno, Yeh when the solenoid broke before, it went into serious overboost, pulling 1.5 bar, spinning in 5th@70mph, was mucking fental! I think I'll just leave it be TBH mate

 

 

Right there are many peramiters that control the boost on your engine sam. Throttle position (TPS) cross referenced by speed via the speed sensors to help eliminate wheelspin. Map sensor is also used, in some of the boost controling operations.

 

The ECU on your car is as good as any aftermarket ECU, the only arse about it is having to have a new map and emprom created every time you change something on the engine.

 

The turbo on your car will sit there happily making 200bhp all day long. this is not the weakpoint. There are guys in germany that are running 1.2bar on standard turbo, with no problems at all.

 

There is no specific weak point on the engine its a combination of things, like i said its not engineered for performance, so the ecu map, manifold designs, cam choice, head design and many others all contribute to the way is is now.

 

In the same principle you would not want a full race engine in your car to pootle down to the shops in.....I drove an escort rs2000 kit car (new shape) and driving through town was a nightmare, lumpy, stalling mother fumbler of a thing.

[inferno 1]

lol inferno, Yeh when the solenoid broke before, it went into serious overboost, pulling 1.5 bar, spinning in 5th@70mph, was mucking fental! I think I'll just leave it be TBH mate

 

yep i know what you mean, i raced a 220 bhp supercharged civic, i chose to beleive i wasnt pulling wheelspins at high speeds, and chose not to brag about it for fear people with think im bullsh**ing... but it does really happen;) even in a standard engine with revised water ways and a cossie intercooler!

 

does the boost drop off gradually sam? if so try an external wastegate

[johnrobertgordon 0]

my 205 would wheel spin like buggery. I took Bales down the road in it and when we came round a 90 degree junction I gave it a little welly and it span up then, I was constantly having to adjust the throttle when giving it some in the lanes, not a good move for keeping the boost up.

 

Mine pulled like a train but the powerband was fairly small.

 

I know I sound very negative on these posts but I don't mean to be, it was bloody good fun. The best bit was the noise, the pops the bangs and the 3 ft flames.

[sonofsam 5]

I know mate and I've told you before, its becuase you were running a bleed valve.

Completely disregarding the standard boost control

 

I know how good the ECU is, why do you think im in no hurry to ditch it

 

Just made a little vid of mine, only when I played it back did I realise I should of kept the window

wound up all the time

Small clip going on youtube anyway later yeh the sound is very nice indeed

[24seven 104]

any reason why this conversion wuld be harder from a 406 donor car? or are they all the same. found a 406 cheapcheapcheap nearby.