Mi16 Myths - Let's Get This Sorted!

[pee vee 1]

lol

settle petal. just sayin there is a difference between

a Unichip, megasqurt and full on autronic lol

[veloce200 3]

lol

settle petal. just sayin there is a difference between

a Unichip, megasqurt and full on autronic lol

 

 

er not on a 4 pot pug with batch fire there isn't !

[veloce200 3]

Completely agree with all of what you said, it was just the tone of some of the posts about a persons car that I thought was a bit out of order.

 

Back to the topic aswell if it were me and it was for the road aswell as trackdays I would not even use a mi16, I would use a 1.98v turbo that ran moderate boost but had a propely sorted head and manifold with an aftermarket ecu. Then you could get maybe 180-190 bhp on moderate boost so not on - off power delivery but with loads of driveable torque too.

 

In fact thats what I intend to do over winter to mine

 

Whether I can hillclimb it in the 2.0 litre + road modified class is something i still need to find out though, if know much about that veloce? It says that induction is free with a +40% displacement penalty in the regs, so I take it you can do this to your xu engine and still be eligible.

 

well that is the path I am taking though I am going 1.6 as I love revs...!

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Quirky! LOL!

 

My eight year old Emerald M3D ECU is still going strong...Wasn't able to ugrade my box to the new latest software as it's too old, but it still produes the goods....212BHP & 162lbft mapped by DW the same guy who did Sandy's mate...

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Veloce, there's history between Jonmurgie and Maxi...All stems down to the 30BHP extra he got on Power Station rollers...

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

in fairness Dino DOES have a point to some extent..

in as much as, Better quality ECUs, generally speaking have more mappable load sites etc

(or so im led to believe)

So that means in more expensive ecus, it will probably take longer to map, BUT

the advantage being the map will be more precise to the engines needs thru the rev range...

 

the more load sites you can map to, the nicer the power will feel, as the mapper can be more precise.

and on top of that, power can be better 'optimised' thruoughout the rev range.

might not make a massive difference to overall power,, but the way the car 'drives'

could well be very noticably different thru the rev range as the Map is far more Precise.

This is how i understood it anyway..

 

For the road...But on a track car you speend most of your time at WOT...Who cares how the other sites are mapped below that

[Adam B 0]

I really couldn't give a monkey's backside what the final BHp figure of Jon's car was - it was really something to drive, instant throttle response and a seriously rev-hungry engine. Made my Rallye feel very wooden indeed.

 

Also i'd like to point out that Jon does most of the work on his 205 himself, albeit with the odd hand from his friends. Sure he buys some crazily expensive things for what is still a 205, but thats up to him isn't it? I've seen that car completely stripped to the shell over the last few months and hes spent a helluva lot of time building it back up. Cheque tuning in my book means you dont actually get dirty...

I personally think its madness and would i'd have bought a nice Evo instead and run it for a couple of years.

 

Anyway its about time this thread got back on topic. My 2 cents - sod the Mi get a GTi-6 engine and management, cam it, chip it and enjoy the non-fuel surge.

 

Or V6

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

oh for gods sake Puma Racing please come on here and stop this nonsense. ECUs such as Emerald interpolate between points. having 100 rpm resolution makes little if no difference. eg. if the AFR is constant at 12:5:1 and you've dialed in the ignition to suit with min advance to gain max torque a minute change in fueling between 7100 and 7150 from 12:5:1 - 12:4:1 will do sweet FA. If you'd sat in a car whilst on the rollers you'd understand.

 

My M3D ECU bought in 98 was running 8 load sites at that time...When I got the ECU upgraded to 16 load sites could noticed hardly any difference...

[veloce200 3]

For the road...But on a track car you speend most of your time at WOT...Who cares how the other sites are mapped below that

 

 

easy solution to this "smoothness" and "road map" thing - I run a narrow band up to around 50% throttle and allow the ECU to change mixture - works a treat. £30 for a narrow band. Oh but I think I might need more RAM and Antivirus as when I was on the motorway the other day it crashed and I had to reboot

[niklas 1]

My M3D ECU bought in 98 was running 8 load sites at that time...When I got the ECU upgraded to 16 load sites could noticed hardly any difference...

 

IMO, number of load sites is mostly sell talk.

It all stems from the myth that an engine is working in a very non-linear way (which would render the interpolating really inaccurate), which I seriously doubt is the case...

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Why would you take the piss out of his trackcar that to me looks like a very very nice piece of kit? why does the amount of money he has spent on it effect you in any way, its his money and his choice.

 

I am sorry to say this but it just smacks of jealousy to have a go at someone because they have spent more on their car than maybe you or other people would - hence your sig.

 

In the scheme of things even if he has spent 10k on his car that is nothing compared to some people, how much do you think a Radical or a Brooke or an Ariel Atom or a Caterham costs for a proper trackday car? some people spend £30k+ on a car purely for trackdays, does that mean that it is a huge waste of money?

 

I really think that bringing the amount of money someone spends on something is completely irrelevant,

 

One more point is that you say "cheque book tuners" i do not know how much mechanical knowledge Jon Murgie actually has or to what degree he has done the work to his car, but again I think this is completely irrelevant.

 

If someone is not particularly practically minded or doesnt want to get involved in that sense of building a car. If that person sends their car to a company to do all the work to the car carry out all the modifications, does that mean that the persons car isn't as "worthy" as someone who has done all the work themselves and built it completely themselves?

 

Sorry but that post comes across as totally immature and of jealousy, and I do think that your points come across as derogatory to people who maybe dont have the mechanical knowledge about cars or who arent interested in messing with their cars in that way.

 

Alex

 

Oh yeah I am guessing that 216bhp doesnt come cheap from an mi16 - so in your case you have spent perhaps three times what I paid for my car just on your engine - pot, kettle, black?

 

 

If you had been on here longer than 5 minutes you would know there is a lot more to this.

 

Maxi

[bales 1]

If you had been on here longer than 5 minutes you would know there is a lot more to this.

 

Maxi

 

Fair enough

 

Still don't agree with your sig though but each to their own.

Edited September 30, 2006 by bales

[Jonmurgie 2]

If you had been on here longer than 5 minutes you would know there is a lot more to this.

Well I've been here longer than 5 minutes and don't really have a clue WHAT your problem or point is

 

Still, I'm moving on (and leaving you behind)

[Dino 3]

This thread is so good on so many levels

 

Thanks Guys, for the techie stuff and the comedy in between

[hengti 2]

we definately need that :gay fight: bickering smilie on this forum!

[pee vee 1]

we definately need that :gay fight: bickering smilie on this forum!

 

 

lol, you use passion ford as well then mate?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Hello all - just to let you know I'm still watching THIS IMMENSE thread that I started. It was only intended to get to the bottom of what sensible, affordable mods to the Mi guaruntee usable (road) power/torque increase of X [just as a reminder to late comers and thanks to all those who steered the sometimes meandering thread back].

 

Despite the occasional 'meoww - ooer missus saucer of milk for table 12 please - moments', this thread has bags and bags of useful advice, and purely by commonality the answer seems to have been repeated several times, which is good [only clean the head - increase the CR - catcam (or similar) inlet cam (exhaust left alone) to gain 15-25bhp AND THEN MAKE THE STEP FUNDS ALLOWING of mappable ECU+TB(or carb) with optional 4-2-1 exhaust manifold] - this is the route I will follow anyway.

 

I am really really please that so many have contributed - fascinating stuff. In the process I have come into contact with some of you (and their friends with white vans in dark car parks), to obtain a 309GTi rear beam - NOW FITTED but brake lines being upgraded to suit (thanks Booms & Pugrallye), Anthony who I believe will at some point have the business from me of refurbing said beam - and Justin who has helped immensely by being local, helpful, hands on willing to work in the rain.

 

One point though, an engine tuner/race car prep'r mentioned that by using the 0.5mm copper gasket, I'll be understandibly reducing the cam/crank distance, and hence alter the timing slightly, thus really needing the addition of verniers for phase one as listed above.

 

Your thoughts on the logical latter please???

 

Dr S

[petert 550]

One point though, an engine tuner/race car prep'r mentioned that by using the 0.5mm copper gasket, I'll be understandibly reducing the cam/crank distance, and hence alter the timing slightly, thus really needing the addition of verniers for phase one as listed above.

 

With an 8V engine, definitely yes. With a 16V engine, maybe. It all depends how much you take off. Theoretically, as there are two tensioners, any belt slack should be taken up by the two tensioners. However, if a lot of metal is removed, ie decking an XU9J4Z block by 1.3mm, the inlet tensioner runs out of travel, resulting in the exhaust tensioner doing all the work. This of course retards the timing of both cams by an equal amount.

 

You won't have any trouble reducing by only 0.8mm, the difference in thickness between a std. gasket and 0.5mm gasket. You'll need vernier pulleys anyhow to dial in the cams, unless you have a collection of offset woodruff keys. I can supply a 4 deg. offset key. It's a lot cheaper than a vernier pulley.

[Sandy 189]

I was considering trying a larger diameter tensioner pulley from another model, have you tried that Peter?

[petert 550]

I've never needed to. An offset key has always been enough to sort it out.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

You won't have any trouble reducing by only 0.8mm, the difference in thickness between a std. gasket and 0.5mm gasket. You'll need vernier pulleys anyhow to dial in the cams, unless you have a collection of offset woodruff keys. I can supply a 4 deg. offset key. It's a lot cheaper than a vernier pulley.

 

Thanks PeterT: again, as I knew you'd sell me the gasket I knew (somehow) you'd have a solution to this too. Verniers can be quite expensive I hear I'm not at that totally tunable (mappable) stage yet. Cheers

 

Dr S

[petert 550]

Whilst the copper gasket is a cheap and easy CR increase, I trust you're away of the downsides. Aluminium and copper in an electrolyte make a battery, which equals corrosion. The life of a Cu gasket in an Al sandwich is 2 years - 3 years max. This is normally fine for a race engine, but maybe not a street engine.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

is it possible to get 0.5mm gaskets in other materials. Like the steel/kevlar spesso ones? Do spesso custom make gaskets to your requirements? or does newhere?