Mi16 Myths - Let's Get This Sorted!

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

exaclty not to mention how much fun they are

 

Indeed with road useable torque too........

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Omex have agraph for the standard mi16 & mi16 on tb's click on link below and then click on the Mi16 link :-

 

http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/ThrottleBodies/TBEM/TBEM.htm

Edited September 24, 2006 by Robsbc

[smckeown 1]

very short trumpets provied...

[petert 550]

Making 1st to 4th closer geared on the Mi16 box and the taller first is better for launching. 4th on both boxes is good for 110mph at 7000rpm on 195/50/15 tyres, which is fast enough for most tracks and certainlyfor the road, so 5th can be a nice quieter, more economical gear.

 

Sorry, I didn't realise you were talking about the overall ratios. I was referring to the % difference between the gears. Nobody I know uses Mi16 3rd/4th and 5th, as the gaps are less than desireable for serious track work. So when you couple the 205 box with a 4.43 diff it becomes a beast.

 

ie

 

Mi16

2.92

1.85 - 37%

1.28 - 31%

0.969 - 24%

0.76 - 22%

 

205

2.92

1.85 -37%

1.36 - 26%

1.069 - 21%

0.865 - 19%

[Sandy 189]

Sorry if I came across as pedantic (can't help it ), I was making the point in the context of alot of people fitting the standard 1.6 box instead of the Mi16 box, believing it to be better/shorter/closer etc, which overall isn't the case. Several hillclimb 205's i'm involved with are running the Hybrid 4.43 with 1.9 ratios, which wouldn't be ideal on the road, but is damn good on the hills and track I agree. One of these 205's tried a 4.8 FDR with 1.9 ratios this season and lost time at most events, now changed back to 4.43.

[Dream Weaver 2]

Modt of us have have spent a few pennies to get our 200BHP + Mi16/S16's

 

But have they ended up any better than they were before?

 

Not in my case, as a £2k bought car it was fun, as a £7k modded car its not as much fun, so quite a waste of money though I have some small issues to resolve that will hopefully take it back to being fun again.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

But have they ended up any better than they were before?

 

Not in my case, as a £2k bought car it was fun, as a £7k modded car its not as much fun, so quite a waste of money though I have some small issues to resolve that will hopefully take it back to being fun again.

 

Very unlucky...

 

But if you had stuck with Jenvey's/KMS route that are proven you wouldn't be having some of your issues..

[jackherer 543]

Very unlucky...

 

But if you had stuck with Jenvey's/KMS route that are proven you wouldn't be having some of your issues..

 

and some more appropriate gear ratios, its some small things ruining a potentially amazing car by the sounds of it...

[Dream Weaver 2]

Very unlucky...

 

But if you had stuck with Jenvey's/KMS route that are proven you wouldn't be having some of your issues..

 

We don't know thats the issue though.

 

I could now spunk another £1500 on a set of KMS bodies, shorter ratio box and some other bits and it could possibly still be the same, so there's the dilemna. If I spent the extra money doing that, only to find it still had the same crap, near std power and drivability then i'd just have to torch the bloody thing

 

Apart from the extra power, I don't think a modded Mi16 205 with all the proper bits (TBs/ECU etc) is that much more rewarding than a good std 1.9 8V, percentage wise. Don't get me wrong, they are good fun with the extra power, but for what we spend doing the mods they aren't massively better.

[smckeown 1]

yeah i learned this valuable lesson over the last few years about spending lots of money on road cars. I now keep my road car fairly standard, as I feel spending money on modifying them is a false economy, as they are not as good as before as a road car. I prefer to have a dedicated track car where I make the investment and know I will reap the benefits.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Apart from the extra power, I don't think a modded Mi16 205 with all the proper bits (TBs/ECU etc) is that much more rewarding than a good std 1.9 8V, percentage wise. Don't get me wrong, they are good fun with the extra power, but for what we spend doing the mods they aren't massively better.

 

You must be well down with your car to come up with that statement...

[boombang 2]

I agree to some extent - my missus 309 Gti we just broke gave perhaps the most rewarding and fun road drives I've ever experienced.

 

It was 100% standard.

[Batfink 201]

For a road car just fit some throttle bodies. you dont need the extra power on the road and the engine will make a fantastic sound that will make you grin like a mad man.

 

200bhp isnt really needed or a roadcar to have some serious fun

[d-9 0]

Im with dreamweaver on this one, admitidly im not £7k in, but it feels like a long way in, and at the moment the car was more fun as a 105bhp automatic.

 

After driving a friends bodied up, monster 205 recently, it was very good. But i dont think it is £xxxx better than a standard 1.6 in terms of grins/mile.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Im with dreamweaver on this one, admitidly im not £7k in, but it feels like a long way in, and at the moment the car was more fun as a 105bhp automatic.

 

After driving a friends bodied up, monster 205 recently, it was very good. But i dont think it is £xxxx better than a standard 1.6 in terms of grins/mile.

 

1.6 are gutless...I've had one!

[mfield 20]

1.6 are gutless...I've had one!

 

An old mini cooper is gutless, still fun to drive though

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

An old mini cooper is gutless, still fun to drive though

 

What ever floats your boat...

[d-9 0]

they may be comparativly gutless, but theyre still relativly quick, especially 20-50mph and theyre a such a laugh to drive. All it takes is one empty roundabout, one gap in the traffic, or a bit of luck with the lights and it'll put a huge grin on your face.

[Dream Weaver 2]

My original 1.6 was very good fun, and the thinner tyres made it easier to drive as well.

 

A 205 with Mi16 is nice, but they are no powerhouse - I remember when buying mine with a std Mi engine, I was disappointed. I was expecting the Impreza type power that i'd been used to at that time and it just wasn't there, it felt no quicker than the 174bhp std MR2 mk2 I had before it.

 

The point is a £10,000 205 Mi16 with headwork, throttle bodies, full suspension etc etc is not 10 times better than a £1000 std good condition 1.9 8v, and thats my point - it will be quicker, but not necessarily more fun and it won't be 10 times quicker either.

[Anthony 1,000]

I think what's been said is right - 205's don't need monster power to be fun, and in terms of smiles per pound it is hard to beat a standard car. I've driven most things from standard cars to 200hp+ monsters, and whilst they are undoubtably significantly faster, stop significantly better and carry significantly more speed through the corners, I'm not convinced at all that they're significantly more fun.

 

Indeed, to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, the most fun I've had (with clothes on ) in a car has been taking my standard 309 out on track at various times this year - on paper it should be hopeless as it needs more power, has comedy bodyroll and the brakes are awful - but never once have I got out of it and not grinned like a Cheshire cat

 

1.6 are gutless...I've had one!

And I've still got it!

[d-9 0]

A quick recap on the goodwood....

 

Upsetting caterhams at anglesey:

 

5 up drifting at haynes:

 

 

Far more fun than my much modified 309.

[smckeown 1]

5 up drifting at haynes:

 

Looks like those guys are off to the disco.........."Young man, there's no need to feel down.

I said, young man, pick yourself off the ground"...

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Well this thread has taken an interesting turn! I'm in agreement...with everyone in fact. From a driving purist's point of view (ref the enjoyment from totally standard - even relatively underpowered cars), then all of us should be in agreement that the pleasure is in the driving itself and not the car. What I mean is, most of us will have had a rental poop-mobile like a 1.1 corsa (or god help me I had a ford ka once!), and still had an absolute riot in it! In fact (name forgotten) one forum member seems to trash rental/courtesy cars for a living. What I'm saying is you don't expect much from a non-special car, so perhaps you drive differently to achieve the results from your skills - a boring car going fast is funny, fact!

 

Also though, the desire to improve upon (read: invest) or even just keep running (read: invest) a 15 plus year old car appeals to someone in a different way. Hence a 1.6GTi can give just as many rewards as someone who (from the other camp) gets enjoyment from the even further (read: more expensive) challenge of 'attempting' to 'improve' what was already a great car anyway.

 

I find myself in both camps. I take all driving as an art - do it right, do it smooth and most of the time go faster than most. BUT I'm also fascinated by the science and technology, labour, pashion and potential rewards from (and I include the research here) of modifying the already great car to be, well in essence a little or a lot better. But as is shown, better is subjective. 200bhp on paper might be complete dog dump on the road - hence my thread - what can I and similar Mi owners get that's totally usable on the road with a simple, logical and cost effective approach, which is well practically a dead cert?

 

I had and made completely standard a 1.9GTi with only 78k on the clock and sold it to a guy in Glasgow for £400 profit, after taking the TSW alloys and replacing it with the speedlines. I almost cried, it was fantastic. BUT I DO ABSOLUTELY notice the Mi16 difference. But that doesn't make it a better car. Just a different experience.

 

Regards

 

Dr (Proud to be a 205 owner) S

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

the whole £/grin thing is a good point. U prolly get same amount maybe a bit less grins from a 205 as u do a much more expensive car like a lambo. But u would still want a lambo.

 

Spending money on my 205 i can say for the road the amount of grins is probably the same as standard maybe more on clear roundabouts. But on track the grin factor is massively increased as now i actually have to conecntrate to keep in on the tarmac rather than just a monotamous (spelling sucks) amount of understeer.

 

But then to go x miles an hour in a 205 will probably be cheaper than buying a standard car having the same accelleration.

 

Neway i donno i love driving my 205 - end of mindless bable.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

And I've still got it!

 

Don't mean my brother-in-laws....

 

I mean my red one :-

 

Started life as a 1.6 bought in 1995 was 4 years old...Handled well but just not enough poke.

 

In 1996 was converted by SBC to their 1.9S spec including their phase 1 suspension...Great fun, handled better than original and had more umph...

 

1998 wanted more BHP so went over to throttle bodies. Even bigger smile...

 

2005 went over to a SBC Mi16 road conversion which has plenty of low down torque @ 3000rpm as good as my 1.9S on tb's...No regrets

 

Like Dreamweaver went out in a 205 mi16 & S16 on standard injection and both needed to be revved realy hard to get em going...Wasn't impressed as I was use to my torquey 1.9S on tb's...

Edited September 25, 2006 by Robsbc