205 Mapped But Its Now Crap :(

[welshpug 1,626]

with the chamber design on these XU's thjeres no need for multiple electrode plugs, more electrodes means less air/fuel mixture circulating between around said plug, single electrodes are all you need!

 

£6 from GSF!!!!

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

aren't mi16 plugs triple-electrode as standard, by the book?

 

at least i've always got them.

[Sandy 189]

Multiple electrodes are for longer service life mainly as i understand it.

[Jonmurgie 2]

That's exaclty what I've recently found out since looking into the BCP7ET and BCP7ES... no performance benefits other than longer life, but they they are 3 times the price (roughly) so go figure...

[Alastairh 47]

Stay with it mate. you are very close.

[Dream Weaver 2]

Hence my cold map post.

 

clean the plugs up with a wire brush - your spending money for no reason.

 

So when an engine which is being set up gets flooded you must buy new plugs? absolute rubbish.

 

I'm not diggin at anyone and i cannot blame anyone if they have read it in a book.

 

If it starts to overfuel on the cold map it will usually kill a cylinder and run on 3, we get over this on race cars by taping up the radiator during endurance races.

 

It's mainly from my experience, rather than what the book said.

 

When I first got it running and had the big Saab injectors on it was very rich and soon fouled the new plugs I had in there. In the end it wouldn't fire at all, so I took them out and cleaned them up like new, but when I fitted them again it still wouldn't run.

 

So I bought some new plugs, and sure enough it fired straight away and ran superbly.

 

For £7.36 for 4 plugs (from eBay), I cant be arsed with cleaning the current plugs, even though they're only 500 miles old.

 

Oil and plugs should arrive Monday/Tuesday so i'll drain the oil tomorrow ready for an oil/plugs change next weekend.

 

It isn't something daft like an engine temperature sensor wire broken is it? If like the Jetronic it read a VERY cold engine with a bust wire then it would suddenly start to seriously overfuel...

 

Rob

 

I'd thought about this also, the temp sensor may have been disturbed during the mapping, though it does read normal values during startup in the Emerald.

 

What's the best way to test the sensors?

[M3Evo 0]

Did you need any fancy control circuit to do that, or did you just put 12v across them on a push button?

 

Think if you wanted to know the flow/unit time accurately you'd need a timer (or at least a stopwatch).

 

All I wanted to do was check they were all flowing vaguely the same amount for an arbitraty amount of time and also see if there was something wrong with one of them as one cylinder kept putting out it's spark plug, sure enough the corresponding injector was dribbling when it was supposed to be shut.

[petert 554]

Did you need any fancy control circuit to do that, or did you just put 12v across them on a push button?

 

Buy yourself a cheap 12V square wave generator and hook it up to the input of your ECU. Vary it from 30Hz (900 rpm on a 4 cyl.) upwards. I fire them into four 250mL graduated measuring cylinders.

[M3Evo 0]

Hang about, isn't the flaw in that arrangement that 900rpm is 15Hz, regardless of the number of cylinders, and also that the ECU's expecting 60 pulses and a gap in the case of the Mi16?

 

Or are we not talking about hooking the Square Wave Generator up to the crank trigger input?

Edited September 3, 2006 by M3Evo

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

If it's the engine temp sensor wire broken the livescreen on the laptop will show the engine temp with 3 red crosses to tell you it's not receiving a signal. The ECU then will run the choke @ -10 degrees.

 

Has happned to me when I was running in my Mi....The AA man did not know what was wrong, if my laptop had been charged up I could have looked at the problem when I was stuck at teh raod side..

Edited September 8, 2006 by Robsbc

[Dream Weaver 2]

Got some Millers CFS 10/40 and some new plugs here. Just need an oil filter and sump washer and i'll get it sorted on Sunday

 

I just hope the mapping is then OK for me to drive it. I can get a discount on Innovate products, so I may go for the Wideband lambda kit to run in the car. If I can watch the AFR then no need to worry

 

Need an exhaust next to try and get the torque/power figure further up.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Dream Weaver

[dazEmad 0]

good effort hope all goes well and you get some good results as it would give us some inspiration to get throttle bodies next year.

[Dream Weaver 2]

Well, i've now adjusted the TPS and done a plugs and oil change and it finally fires and runs properly, but it still won't idle, plus I now seem to have a ticking noise behind the head, so it sounds like the manifold is leaking.

 

I need to add a throttle stop to the bodies to help with the idle, but can someone clarify how it should work? Is it as simple as a screw that holds the butterfly's slightly open on idle to allow a small amount of air in? I always thought the butterfly's should be totally shut when idling?

 

Hopefully that will sort the idle, but i'm then unsure of whether the mapping is OK - don't want to run it again and it to bugger up as it did before.

 

One thing I did notice is that full pedal travel turns the butterfly's all the way round and way past horizontal - I slackened the throttle cable a bit and this helped, but the pedal feels a bit loose now.

 

The bike bodies are working, but they need some more work to be fully apreciated, though i'm getting tempted to ditch them for some KMS bolt-on items

 

They need small bits of work done to get them right, but I don't have the skills to do them myself.

[phatgti 0]

If the butterflies were completely shut on idle then the engine would stall.

 

They certainly don't want to be past the horizontal either.

[Dream Weaver 2]

So there is the problem then

 

So, I need a throttle stop for idle, a return spring to stop them sticking, and possibly a throttle stop on the other end of the throttle travel to stop it going above horizontal??

 

Better get to B&Q tomorrow for some metal and bolts!!

 

Before the mapping it must've just been luck that it idled OK, probably due to some of the butterflys being more open than others? Still not quite sure how the load sites went out though

[phatgti 0]

So if the TPS was calibrated with the butterflies going past where they should be then surely if you have backed the cable off then the TPS won't be getting to WOT.

 

Does that make sense or has the Stella got the better of me tonight?

 

You need a proper way of stopping the butterflies of completely closing and stopping at WOT at the same place each and every time - how you achieve that is up to you.

[Rippthrough 98]

Chances are the the throttles don't want to be at perfectly 90* for fully open either, a couple of degrees off is generally best.

[nick 3]

Why is that?

 

Nick

[Dream Weaver 2]

I've read that recently, sometimes you get more power when they aren't fully open.

 

I've crafted a throttle stop now, just need to tap the hole and add a bolt/spring assembly.

 

After that, will look at the throttle opening and the TPS values again.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Think of all the time & heartache you would have saved if you had gone down the proven Jenvey/KMS bodies set up...Which no doubt you probably have done.

 

Good luck and hope your back up and running soon!

[M3Evo 0]

Think of all the time & heartache you would have saved if you had gone down the proven Jenvey/KMS bodies set up...Which no doubt you probably have done.

 

This is a s*it arguement against that, but when you've just bolted on someone else's bits, you can't stand back and say "I did that" with any real sense of satisfaction.

[Dream Weaver 2]

Besides, I would've needed an extra £700 for the proper stuff, and according to both Mike at Mikeanics, and Dave Walker at Emerald, home brew TB's have no real downsides over the manufacturers offerings, they just need more work and may not look as nice.

 

Bike bodies do work, just look at Damian's, but there's too many variables in my setup to show whether they have worked or not. The exhaust may be letting it down, the RR may read low, tyre pressures were down etc etc.

 

Other than that, all the work I do on them is ancient as I don't have any facilities for fabricating metal, just a vice, hammer and pliers

 

Someone with a better setup, and access to welding gear and metalwork stuff could definately get bike bodies to work as well as Jenvey/KMS - they are just air valves after all, not mystical powers.

[Rippthrough 98]

This is a s*it arguement against that, but when you've just bolted on someone else's bits, you can't stand back and say "I did that" with any real sense of satisfaction.

 

 

The rather better one is that you can still stand back admire the cash still in you wallet.

[M3Evo 0]

The rather better one is that you can still stand back admire the cash still in you wallet.

 

hadn't thought of it like that! Saved myself about £1800 making my own on that basis

[Craigb 2]

When fitting a throttle stop for WOT , try and limit the travel of your pedal , because all you will be doing if the stop is on the bodies is stretching the cable and putting undue load on it .