205 Mapped But Its Now Crap :(

[Dream Weaver 2]

With certain types of TPS they keep on turning but if you go to far the signal goes to infinity and will make the ECU go haywire.

 

Like it has been said before you just calibrate it between closed throttle and WOT.

 

You cannot drive the car like this, if it's dropping back to .15 when you floor it it'll just stop squirting fuel basically or cut the spark - if it's messing about and runnign lean you'll end up killing the engine.

 

Have you spoken to the mapper yet? you need to quick otherwise he may not want to know if you have been tampering.

 

With regards to power we did an Mi16 last year that had pretty much everything for a 220bhp spec but the emerald held it back and even Dave walker couldn't squeeze more than 193bhp out of it.

 

I haven't bothered ringing Mike back, as it's pretty much 100% that the pot is out of alignment physically, and needs moving round, so just waiting to buy the right bits so I can move it.

 

The load sites being out, and the fact that it used £40 of Optimax in 150 miles suggest that the pot is way out. The Emerald procedure for calibrating it is easy enough, but that hasn't worked, so it must just be out physically.

 

I'll undo the pot when I get the tools for it, and just move it back round until it reads 0.33v at closed throttle. If that doesn't work, then i'll give Mike a bell.

[James_R 3]

With regards to power we did an Mi16 last year that had pretty much everything for a 220bhp spec but the emerald held it back and even Dave walker couldn't squeeze more than 193bhp out of it.

 

What power did the engine make after it was swapped to a different ecu out of interest?

[phatgti 0]

It was left on the Emerald, the curve was good as was the torque so the owner was happy with it.

[Owain1602 0]

i have just set up my DCOE and omex ignition ECU last night in work and the MAP3000 software was unbelievably easy to understand.

 

In regard to the TPS setting up, you have a TPS RAW which is the site the TPS is at, ranging from 0 to 255. You put the TPS RAW value at closed throttle in the TPS MIN box, then open to full throttle and look at the TPS RAW value, then enter this in TPS MAX. As long as all the TPS RAW values are between 0 and 255 it will be ok.

Having put these values in, it works out the the LOAD SITE. There are numerous was of testing your TPS, perform a sweep test with a Scope. Resistance change moving it very very slowly through the range. Voltage change at the signal pin (easier done with a scope, and the previous really) or what i figuer might be the easiest for you is have a look at the TPS Signal through the software. Never used Emerald software but all of them should give an actual RAW figuer from the TPS, like a none Interpreted signal. Look at this signal and move the TPS through its full working range very slowly, looking for any breakages or any glitches in the TPS value.

Its not very complex really is it. Enter MIN value, enter MAX value and it does the rest. I seem to recall in Omex when entering a new value in a box in Live mode you must press ENTER after it for it to take it, i was just TABBING from one box to the other for a bit and it didnt save one of them :S maybe something to think about?

But to be honest i think you should sort all your other problems first because the throttle stop is vital for everything and if this isnt working correct then you could get a different TPS value at closed throttle each time you take your foot off. Not sure about the fitment of the throttle stop on them but be carefull you dont play about with the balancing of the carbs whilst playing about.

Good luck, be thorough with it so you only have to do things once and i think you'll sort it out.

[Malachy 0]

i have just set up my DCOE and omex ignition ECU last night in work and the MAP3000 software was unbelievably easy to understand.

 

In regard to the TPS setting up, you have a TPS RAW which is the site the TPS is at, ranging from 0 to 255. You put the TPS RAW value at closed throttle in the TPS MIN box, then open to full throttle and look at the TPS RAW value, then enter this in TPS MAX. As long as all the TPS RAW values are between 0 and 255 it will be ok.

this is similar to megasquirt, but all you do with ms, is youpull up the calibrate box, foot off throttle click the closed tps box, floor throttle click open box.

job done.

[Dream Weaver 2]

The Emerald is even easier.

 

Press "Setup throttle pot", then apply and release throttle pedal, then press OK and all is done.

 

I did it so many times before the mapping session when I was first setting up, and it always worked fine - there is no mention of raw values anywhere, though it does give some values between 3 and 1023, which used to be 221 to 814 or something before.

 

I can add new throttle stops and return springs, and move the TPS around all I want, but the annoying thing is it was completely fine before I went down there, showed full load sites on TPS and ran superbly, albeit with slightly fluctuating idle due to the bodies not being balanced.

[Owain1602 0]

You need to be running it with the software running and going down the road really, looking at whats going on. Why does it suddenly die at full throttle? Seems because of your load sensing but maybe else is causing this?

The values you mentioned seem to be what you need to be looking at, they'll be your min and max values. Can you get an actual value for the TPS in numberic form? You said they were betweek 221 and 814 before, so what you must do is, set up your TPS again. Have a look at these numbers again. At closed throttle you want the actual value to be the lower number ( sometimes a bit less or more) then sweep the throttle open slowly, looking at the number changing, all the way to your max value. There should be no dips, number increases with throttle opening.

Most certainly your problem lies here, set this up properly and the maps should be spot on if hes set them up with correct TPS values.

Anything can happen really, what if your spindle is bent now? Can easily happen when modifications are mode to throttle cables and linkages.

If you have a copy of the Emerald software for me to look at, i might be able to help a bit more. I have omex and GEMS but i think its different.

[petert 550]

But probably with a Hall effect input rather than Motronic. I raised this as it was an issue with Haltech's about 10 years ago.

[Dream Weaver 2]

You need to be running it with the software running and going down the road really, looking at whats going on. Why does it suddenly die at full throttle? Seems because of your load sensing but maybe else is causing this?

The values you mentioned seem to be what you need to be looking at, they'll be your min and max values. Can you get an actual value for the TPS in numberic form? You said they were betweek 221 and 814 before, so what you must do is, set up your TPS again. Have a look at these numbers again. At closed throttle you want the actual value to be the lower number ( sometimes a bit less or more) then sweep the throttle open slowly, looking at the number changing, all the way to your max value. There should be no dips, number increases with throttle opening.

Most certainly your problem lies here, set this up properly and the maps should be spot on if hes set them up with correct TPS values.

Anything can happen really, what if your spindle is bent now? Can easily happen when modifications are mode to throttle cables and linkages.

If you have a copy of the Emerald software for me to look at, i might be able to help a bit more. I have omex and GEMS but i think its different.

 

The problem I have is the car won't start at all now, so I can't even get the thing running. Showing load site 4 at closed throttle obviously means there are no idle settings within the main maps, so it doesn't even fire up, it just goes straight to load site 4.

 

You can get the Emerald software from their website, although my software is slightly updated compared to that one - http://www.emeraldm3d.com/em_software.html

[d-9 0]

If its showing load site 4 at closed throttle then either recalbrate the TPS or rotate the TPS so it gets load site 0 at closed throttle.

 

If neither of the above work, then buy a new TPS.

Edited August 24, 2006 by d-9

[James_R 3]

As doug says, also worth having the data logger running constantly, gve some useful information.

[phatgti 0]

Surely if its showing load site 4 then it would try to start as its just acting as if your giving it a little throttle?

 

If it was showing that your flat out then that wuld flood it but not at 4 surely?

 

You getting a spark mate?

[Dream Weaver 2]

It fires, but it chugs like a tractor, and no amount of throttle can get it started enough, or revving freely.

 

There's no ICV on it, hence as it's cold it really struggles.

 

I'll try and get the torx bits tonight and move the TPS.

[phatgti 0]

Most ecu's have a cold map that is connected in some way to your water temp sensor.

 

If your water temp sensor isnt plugged in or is faulty thhat wont help it as otherwise it'll just sit on its hot map and it'll run like a bag of nails - this also works vice versa, if you don't get it hot enough then it'll sit on its cold map and have no power as it'll be rich as hell.

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Surely if its showing load site 4 then it would try to start as its just acting as if your giving it a little throttle?

 

If it was showing that your flat out then that wuld flood it but not at 4 surely?

 

You getting a spark mate?

 

Nope, as you are getting air for idle and fuel for load site 4...

[Owain1602 0]

That would generaly richen it a bit, therfore helping it to start.

I really dont know what to say now, its getting a bit silly.

You need to try and re-calibrate your TPS settings to get your load sites back on track. This load site 4 @ closed throttle is no good, you must get it right.

[Dream Weaver 2]

OK, now i'm stumped

 

The security torx bits arrived from eBay this morning, so I've just been out and adjusted the TPS. It now has proper linear readings from 0.4v up to 4.9v and also passes the ohms test going from 5000 ohms down to 0.18 ohms, closed to WOT.

 

Realigned the pot in the Emerald software, and now its finally showing proper load sites again from 0 to 15

 

But...it still won't start.

 

Tried my original map, and the new Mikeanics map but still no joy. It fires, but you have to hold it at 3-4k rpm and it just pops and chugs. More worrying is the fact I can see flames popping out from the TB's in my workbench reflection

 

So, not too sure what else to do now. It sounds as though its firing on 2 or 3 cylinders, so first thing I need to do is check the spark and fuel systems.

 

I just don't understand what could've happened to it?

[M3Evo 0]

It hasn't got something silly like the wrong value in the Distributor/pickup alignment box has it?

 

From memory it should say 120degrees on the Mi16 (think that's standard for the Bosch 60-2 tooth wheel, but it does seem to differ on other cars )

Edited August 31, 2006 by M3Evo

[Dream Weaver 2]

All settings are fine, just been through every setting and they are all the same as before 120 degrees BTDC, inductive pickup, 60-2 crank sensor etc etc.

 

Really frustrating, plus the Mrs is back at work now so i'm carless again

[smckeown 1]

does emerald have output tests, for injectors, spark fuel pump etc ?

[Dream Weaver 2]

Hmm, not too sure, never seen them if it has.

[M3Evo 0]

We tested Stu's the other day using a spare trigger wheel mounted to an electric drill.

 

Was all a bit empirical really but gave an indication that everything was working

 

Guess all your outputs must be working or it wouldn't run at all I'd have thought?

 

How about fouled plugs from it running on load4 with only idle air going in.

 

As a thought, your oil doesn't smell of petrol does it after all that rich running?

[Dream Weaver 2]

Just checked it and the oil stinks of petrol

 

I have a sinking feeling that whatever was done during the mapping has now buggered my rebuilt engine, and there'll be no chance of any come back

 

So wish I hadn't bothered having it mapped, it was fine before and the oil never had fuel in it.

 

I only did 70 miles though, so there's a slim chance it may be OK. However...I don't have any spare time left any more, so it's looking more and more like i'm going to have to break it down now and sell everything off

 

I haven't even had a chance to properly drive it yet

[Dream Weaver 2]

How difficult would it now be to revert it back to std? I don't have the inclination any more to be fecking about with bodies, ECU's etc.

 

I'm thinking of going back to the std induction setup and ECU and selling my bits on.

 

Its defeatist, I know, but as I say I have no time left to mess with it. Just need something I can jump in and drive.

[pug309twin40s 1]

if youve only done 70miles then your engine will be fine. all the petrol would have done with that little miles would be to clean everything.

 

just do and oil and filter change and it will be fine