[project] Silver 1.9 Gti 16v Project (now Gti-6)

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

*waits in anticipation*

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Hes probably off floating around sussex hoovering up as many victims as poss with his throttle bodies!

 

Im pretty sure the readout said 500BHP?

 

Maxi

[taylorspug 7]

 

There you go- 155.6hp @ the wheels.

 

Im more than happy with that, the car is 20hp up on standard with no internal engine work, on an honest set of rollers. Plus the curves look great and it drives exactly how i wanted it to. The sound it makes is different now its been mapped, and it certainly goes alot better through the mid range. Traction in 3rd and a bit in 4th is a problem in the wet now too!

 

As i expected it wasnt too far out, Chris said it was going a touch lean right at the top end which got me a few extra hp at the end of the session. He spent most of the time going through the load sites and checking the lower end of the rev range, as that was what id felt needed some work. He reckons he didnt see anything majorly wrong sub 4k, but the small adjustments he has made have made the world of difference! As much as anything else its alot more civilised on the road now. More power will pretty much mean more cam, but im not really too fussed about this as i cant get anything man spec in with the standard pistons.

 

Sounded harsh on the rollers too!

[Galifrey 1]

Epic!

 

[Alastairh 47]

Nice result mate.

 

Al

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Its a fantastic result and once again shows how far out these rollers that are being commonly used on here are. The car goes down the road extremely well, quicker than others that are supposidly 200BHP+.

 

Big thumbs up mate, you done well!

 

Maxi

[taylorspug 7]

Indeed, couldnt agree more. Brilliant service by TOTD, and performance that would make alot of supposedly more powerful stuff cry. Plus they would probably be crying if they saw the bill I got too, which would put alot of other places to shame.

 

Just to top the day off, i ended up positive in our three man, 'guess the power' sweepstake. Jim guessed nearest with his 380-odd nags, and i got mine accurate to .2 of a hp! Net gain of a whole quid. Result!

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

And I lost 2 f***ing quid, how the hell did that work! I wasnt even running today, piss take.

 

Maxi

[The Arch Bishop 0]

Still not quite as much as the 'Lude Vtec though Dan! Or have you killed it already?

[taylorspug 7]

And I lost 2 f***ing quid, how the hell did that work! I wasnt even running today, piss take.

 

Maxi

 

Well you and Jimbo guessing at either end of my range forced me right down the middle, which just happened to be right! Anyway its Jimbos fault, he should have manned up and put a GT30 on the EVO and ripped through 400hp.

 

Still not quite as much as the 'Lude Vtec though Dan! Or have you killed it already?

 

Not killed it, sold it though. With a Pug engine i dont have to tit around waiting for the Gay-tec to kick in, plus that big old barge wouldnt have seen which way the 205 went! It would leave a EP3 type-R behind even on the standard management.

[rubyna 4 1 Cars]

You say probably Steve. Do you or don't you? (need longer bolts)

 

How thick is the PTFE gasket and out of interest how much was it please?

 

My alternative material blanks are 3mm or 6mm. 6mm I can imagine is a definite for longer bolts.

 

Rich, Dan im sure will let you know, he had his on the group buy on the 306forum iirc, the guy that does them still does them now when atleast 5 sets are wanted,HTH. Luke

 

Dan well done mate that is a real good result off a set of rollers that dont bump the figures up a touch for flattery

like some do!! Anyway mate thats a credit to your work and choice of how far to go with a pretty much Std engine

etc. to get a nice smooth power curve and a very healthy BHP atw, like you say mate it does what you wanted it to do

and thats what counts.Bring on the Trumpets!!! Time to induct that lovely bit of country lanes arond your way!!

Luke..

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Sweet work Dan.

 

Bodies, a good ECU, excellent mapping and a general high standard of build quality will always show far better what these engines are capable of.

 

As I said to Porsche911Rm101 (Mark) the other day, these custom engines are all like living breathing animals, even with their own characteristics (dare I say personalities?). It's nice to see how different they can be.

 

Cracking result.

 

[taylorspug 7]

Cheers Rich.

 

The devil is in the detail as they say, and i firmly believe the result has come from all the time spent perfecting all the small points of the engine setup, such as reangling the trumpets to unshroud them from the filter. Chris actually offered to do a run with the filter off, but its a tight fit on my car and actually removing it requires taking off the slam panel- so we gave that one the elbow! My guess is though that i would have only seen a minimal gain from doing this due to the work ive done.

 

Studying the graph further it looks as though there is more power in the engine, i think raising the rev limit a few hundred rpm could have seen me to 190. But im happy, the car is quick, nice to use, and the engine is safe. Plus as the graph shows it also has a reasonably good spread of torque, despite me retarding the cam timing to change the power delivery.

[Cameron 16]

Nice!

 

What ECU are you using Dan? I'm too lazy to search through the thread.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Nice!

 

What ECU are you using Dan? I'm too lazy to search through the thread.

 

Too lazy to look in his signature too it seems.

[Cameron 16]

 

Can't see the wood for the trees!

 

How does TOTD compare to Emerald for mapping?

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

 

Can't see the wood for the trees!

 

How does TOTD compare to Emerald for mapping?

 

 

Wouldnt have a clue about the actual mapping as ive never driven anything Dave has mapped, although Chris seems to know Dave quite well.

 

All I will say and I wont hold back about this, is the results from Emeralds rollers are utter bollocks and have been for years. Thats not to say the mapping is no good, just the rest of it pony, including the silly spikes at the end of the graphs. I think a lot of you who have been on their rollers would get a BIG shock at the results going on a decent dyno dynamics setup. And that is by no means criticising the mapping at all.

 

Maxi

[taylorspug 7]

Chris says hes fine mapping the Emerald, all these types of ECU are basically the same, its just navigating around them thats different, which is why he gets on so well with Omex. Jims Evo is on Motec and he gets on with that fine too. He said the Emerald is pretty nice to use, and has some good features. I paid ALOT less than I would have done at Emerald though, and hes closer to me, so it was a no brainer.

 

Ive been out in the car for a proper drive today and im so happy with it, even the cold start is much improved due to the changes to the map he has made. Its not obviously quicker, but as me and Adam were discussing earlier over a brew the power delivery is now so linear it just doesnt feel that way, but its going down the road better.

 

Rich- To answer your earlier question ive just been outside and measured my PTFE inlet and it would appear to be 5-6mm (its dark out!). Mine fitted fine with the standard GTI6 bolts/nuts/studs.

[andyjstone 5]

Chris says hes fine mapping the Emerald, all these types of ECU are basically the same, its just navigating around them thats different, which is why he gets on so well with Omex. Jims Evo is on Motec and he gets on with that fine too. He said the Emerald is pretty nice to use, and has some good features. I paid ALOT less than I would have done at Emerald though, and hes closer to me, so it was a no brainer.

 

Chris did my Emerald mapping as well, I don't think he knows his way around it as well as others, but as Dan says there all have more or less the same features, it's just getting around the software. Price was also very good compared to others.

 

Mine has a real problem ticking over when cold so I'm going to pop it back when I get it back on the road.

[andyjstone 5]

Thought I'd post this for comparison - this is my 205 running pretty much exactly the same set-up as Dan's with GTI6, Jenveys and K3 - Chris said it would make 7BHP more if I took the filter off, which would make it about the same, interestingly the torque is a little higher.

 

[taylorspug 7]

Probably my cam timing swing to move the peak power up a bit which has accounted for the torque. Doesnt yours have a BV head too Andy? Still a very good comparison, shows consistent results if nothing else. Your power line is almost exactly the same as mine, but mine holds on and keeps climbing after 6600, again probably due to my timing tweak, and more optimal filter setup. My inlet temps are a bit more under control than yours aswell lookng at the numbers on the bottom, is your rad lowered?

[andyjstone 5]

Probably my cam timing swing to move the peak power up a bit which has accounted for the torque. Doesnt yours have a BV head too Andy? Still a very good comparison, shows consistent results if nothing else. Your power line is almost exactly the same as mine, but mine holds on and keeps climbing after 6600, again probably due to my timing tweak, and more optimal filter setup. My inlet temps are a bit more under control than yours aswell lookng at the numbers on the bottom, is your rad lowered?

 

I've got a QEP head, which has bigger valves and no, the rad isn't lowered, but it's on the list!

[taylorspug 7]

Id get that sorted for sure mate, will make a power difference, especially on the rollers! I doubt the head is doing a great deal to affect things at this stage, you still have standard cams like me, and as far as i know the standard '6 head is a fine flowing thing! So our comparisons are about as 'like for like' as you will get. Very interesting for sure, may be il try and overlay them tomorrow just for a better look, at exactly what both are doing.

[andyjstone 5]

Id get that sorted for sure mate, will make a power difference, especially on the rollers! I doubt the head is doing a great deal to affect things at this stage, you still have standard cams like me, and as far as i know the standard '6 head is a fine flowing thing! So our comparisons are about as 'like for like' as you will get. Very interesting for sure, may be il try and overlay them tomorrow just for a better look, at exactly what both are doing.

 

Definitely interesting to compare, especially as it's a very similar set-up on the same RR with the same mapper!

 

How did you lower your rad, is there a bracket available (sorry, I'm lazy too as it's probably in the thread somewhere, but its definitely not in your signature!)?

[taylorspug 7]

It is in the thread yes, however the pictures may have disappeared! Im working on getting all of them together again now. Basically i just made some brakets up that locate the radiator pegs on the base in the same way as standard (i even used the standard rubber bungs from the standard rad cowling). These were then bolted to the lower cross brace between the headlamp panels. I then just made some brakets to pick up on the top of the rad and attach it at the corners. Ive got 4-6 inches of clear space between the slam panel and rad now.