[Project] The Rattlebox

[davenport 51]

I dont know the exact details.. but I do know the amount of time spent modelling this setup on CAD will mean if there is a change it will be so negligable it will not affect things..

 

Macstruts also suffer a change, any linkage that swings thru an arc does, but with correct design (and of course in this instance less wheel travel) changes are minimal.

 

Draw a line from trailing arm bearing centre to the lower spherical and it will pass near on 90 degrees to the angle of the pushrod. This can be played with by adjusting the angle at which the pushrod hole and shock hole lie in relation the the rocker bearing.

 

The same applies to the angle between the upper pushrod spherical-rocker pivot-damper spherical..

Edited January 8, 2014 by davenport

[2052NV 24]

wow so lush!!!

 

Your going to have to rig a face holder in place device as the the g-forces you will generate cornering in this thing will be epic!

[davenport 51]

 

Anywho.. cracking project, Stu! Glad to see this moving on again after the change of priorities.. hope you get it finished soon!

Thanks, and thanks for all the other comments too.. becoming a dad (especially after the hastle that went along with conceiving/having Jenson) has certainly eaten up a lot of free time and money.. but I'm in no rush so jobs will be done as and when I can...

[davenport 51]

with the rattlebox having donated its rear calipers to the clio I needed to address the issue..

 

sourced a set of Mathais for a good price, nothing seized or bust, a good start point!

 

 

 

 

these were promptly took to bits, the holes bunged up and blasted:

 

 

 

things were looking good, but the bolts that hold the carrier to the all body were pretty shot so I decided to get some new`uns..

 

a bit of investimagating determined M12 x 1.5 - 27mm long..

 

the local fastener place only had std or mega fine pitch so ebay!, ebay always has what ya need don`t it??

 

and indeed they did!!

 

 

and at that price, they could f***ing keep `em.. I`ll make me own...

 

so, into the stores at work and found some long 12.9 sockets:

 

 

they were then attacked with the thin disc:

 

 

put in the lathe and chewed a new thread on them:

 

 

ran a tap thru the ally bodies to clean out any left over threadlock/blast debris:

 

 

the carriers have been treated to a BZP (bright zinc plated) which luckily has come back a bit dull so they look nice and subtle:

 

 

 

new sliders/seals/pad retaining clips have been ordered from BOSCH in zee germanland, knowing there ruthless efficiency they will be here early next week and I can cross these off "the list"...

 

 

cheers

Stu

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

As you may or may not know the threads are usually rolled on high tensile bolts and not cut, so they will be somewhat weaker than intended.

 

Not a criticism by the way.

[davenport 51]

Yup.. aware and unconcerned.. I did similar on my old fronts to replace the RIDICULOUS 5 sided bolts!!

 

They survived 5 odd years of everyday use and abuse so I'm confident in the rears being adequate..

[calvinhorse 870]

£3.99! Holy sh1t!!

[welshpug 1,622]

but 5 sided bolts means more tools

[Andy205 2]

Great build thread, loving reading it for the first time. Good to see some proper engineering going on.

[Ballyafb 6]

'Easier' to turret the rear????

 

Easier!!!!????

 

I really dont agree with that... theres a lot of shell fabrication, not to mention reworking cages to tie in the new turrets.. painting.. modifying rear arms to accept the lower damper pick up..

 

Then theres the issue of retaining the arms in place as relying purely on the ARB wont stop them moving as a pair and adding forces to the seals..

 

So.. er... I fail to see how its easier than pressing 4 solid beam mounts in and simply bolting everything in place?? and unless your doing everything yourself I disagree with it being cheaper..

 

It may be slightly lighter, this kit minus dampers adds 7kilos (ish) but I dont agree with your points...

 

I am in the process of turreting the rear of my 205 for vertical coilovers. I am using 18.5mm torsion bars from a standard 309 beam and other bits from a 309 GTI beam. This gives a soft spring rate but when added to the soft coilover spring, it will give a reasonable total spring rate. The trailing arms need threaded stub pins so an M12 bolt can go there. Using MK2 Golf coilovers and potentially instead of fabricating everything, MK2 Escort group N rear turrets can be graphed in.

[davenport 51]

Hey guys.. hope your all good??

 

Theres not been much to tslk of recently I'm affraid, but if i'm on your facebook friends you can probably guess whats been on the agenda..

 

After a friend spoke to me after a set of top mounts like mine I figured it was the ideal opportunity to sell the ones currently fitted (after I made a new set of turret tops for him)

 

 

and press on with the 'trick' items..

 

So..

 

 

With the design fully completed:

 

 

and a jig made to drill the new 6 holes and the 92mm centre hole (this will also allow me to change springs thru the top saving a lot of time and work)

 

 

a few cnc companies ignored my emails.. a few came back with ££££££ quotes.. eventually a couple came back with viable options 1 of which I have dealt with before and know his quality is always good..

 

fingers crossed I should have them in a few weeks...

 

Stu

[dcc 855]

Oh it's your idea is it? Wondered where the magical designs for these had come from

[davenport 51]

The trick items???

 

They're inspired by what Dave did recently for Cols 205.. when we looked into it though the time it took on Cols mill would mean they'd be £££ and sizewise the would 'nt fit onto 106 turrets, so I downloaded autodeskINVENTOR taught myself 3d modelling and drew these up..

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

Could you please take a photo from the underside of your old top mounts, that's if you still have them?

 

I'm interested to see how does the R/J fit in exactly.

 

Thanks.

[davenport 51]

They got sent last week mate.. they're just a reworked compbrake universal undrilled unit though that I machine down and add the 4 holes.. bearing just presses in from underneath and is retained with a circlip..

Edited March 12, 2014 by davenport

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

Oh, OK, thanks!

[Ballyafb 6]

'Easier' to turret the rear????

 

Easier!!!!????

 

I really dont agree with that... theres a lot of shell fabrication, not to mention reworking cages to tie in the new turrets.. painting.. modifying rear arms to accept the lower damper pick up..

 

Then theres the issue of retaining the arms in place as relying purely on the ARB wont stop them moving as a pair and adding forces to the seals..

 

So.. er... I fail to see how its easier than pressing 4 solid beam mounts in and simply bolting everything in place?? and unless your doing everything yourself I disagree with it being cheaper..

 

It may be slightly lighter, this kit minus dampers adds 7kilos (ish) but I dont agree with your points...

I am turreting the rear of mine.

 

- The fabricating can be box section or rolled steel sheet (or off the shelf rear turrets from an Escort, like I will be using).

- The cage does not have to go to the rear top mounts, regs say it must tie to suspension pick up points (so can still use the beam mounts)

- Painting is just a spray in to the rest of the shell

- Modifying the arms is just drilling a hole in the stub pin and threading it (preferably M12 should be strong enough)

- Retaining the arms - Yes the ARB might not be enough, but I will be using base model torsion bars (100lb/in spring rate), combined with 60-80lb/in springs for a combined spring rate of 160-180lb/in. So I will have an ARB and torsion bars and coil springs. Arms are going no where!

 

Thats my plan anyway. The satchell push rod kit is awsome. I designed a copy of it for my degree which used the original beam, meaning a cheaper conversion.

 

People have turreted before and still met regs. The operation is still using a spring and damper, and the fixing points remain the same, you are just adding some more.

[welshpug 1,622]

Many regs dont see it that way, where this kit the only mod afaik to the shell is a few holes to brace the crossmember against the boot floor.

[Sam 4]

Awesome build. I remember you starting this back in the day. That rear suspension is insane. Nice engine bay too

[davenport 51]

ex PGAC sam?????? hows things?? yeah, I`ve been twatting about with it for a while now...

 

 

evening all..

 

sorry for the prolonged silence.. as you`ve probably worked out from the PFT updates I`m pretty much a working machine of late.. I wont lie, its s*it.. hardly see the yob, hardly see the missus and as hard as money comes in it pretty much immediately f***s off again.. however..

 

end of March/start of April we managed to get away for a weeks holiday (despite the clio doing its best attempt to ruin it by spitting its diff out the casing) so, 1 brand new 308 hire car was hired and we f***ed off to Cornwall...

 

I`ve got a few friends down there.. Trace has a few friends down there.. I REALLY didn`t like the thought of taking yob abroad and even if I did I aint got a passport..

 

so then.. progress!!!

 

the turret tops have been modified (again) to accept the new billet topmounts, the reasons being I no longer need camber adjustment as that's done on the strut/hub connection of the satchell front end and I also liked the idea of being able to swap springs quicker and easier by bringing them thru the top..

 

so.. a bit of welding.. a bit of holesawing.. a bit of drilling and hey presto!!

 

 

which allows me to do this

 

 

all I needed then was the billet!! they weren't finished before we went away so my efforts were directed to the dampers - the Bilsteins are LOOOOooong ol buggers and have a lot of droop this causes a few issues the joints on the suspension end up having to go thru a LOT of articulation and driveshaft lengths change quite a bit not to mention the handling issues it also introduces..

 

so, I popped over to see "the man... the myth... the... ENIGMA!!" that's is Colin:

 

 

not only him but also Dean/Dave and as luck had it Sandy.. while chatting away Dave kindly did this:

 

 

and rethreaded the end.. HERO!

 

I spend a a few more days doing stuff like this:

 

 

then came home.. (gotta say the NEW 308`s are pretty cool, the touchscreen dash is funky, they`re comfy and despite being gutless it did a 1000+ miles at over 55mpg)

 

*cough*

 

I then bought a 307 family car

 

*cough*

 

got an email to say the topmounts were finished:

 

 

 

 

new bearings pressed in:

 

 

 

a MASSIVE thanks must go to Andy @ Kaitech for these, I didn`t request it but he even mirror polished them bless him..

 

 

and that's about where I`m up to.. the front end can be rebuilt and driveshaft lengths reset AGAIN!!! for the new reduced droop and hopefully finished this time...

 

much love, and again a big thanks to Col/Dave Vanstone @ Satchell HQ and Andy @ Kaitech precision...

 

stu

[Sam 4]

Hey mate, yeah it's me. Still wish I had the 205. Your build is looking awesome :-) So much attention to detail. Good to see you're working with Colin and Sandy. Top blokes.

[davenport 51]

Hello all....

 

a few little step forwards saturday...

 

Dash panel was collected from the harness manufacturer that was supposed to be sorting it all out...

 

12 months and F**K all to show, so added to the 16 months wasted at "expert #1" makes over 2 years of lies/false promises/bullsh@t...

 

Anyhow. . Reinstated this:

 

 

also after a quick chat with the potential 'new' harness maker the relay boxes are getting relocated but I'm still faffing with a bracket on that...

 

Shortened inserts are back in the struts.. 2nd turret top has been cut/welded/drilled/smoothed/primed and the suspension refitted:

 

 

a few people asked if there was actually any bonnet clearance with these..

 

Heres some proof...

 

http://youtu.be/FTaakVT9Hd4

 

Loadsa room!!!

 

Also got myself a Vband assembly for the rear section.. still undecided on tailpipe though..

 

My head says keep it simple.. straight.. clean

 

 

My heart says downswept (like Espens white 205 (shiny racing for those with LONG memories!!))

 

My testies however say this!

 

 

 

Only kiddin... well... maybe for comedy value....

 

Much love

Stu

[rallyeash 155]

Love this thread. What's your plan when it's all built? Strip for a bare shell respray and re assemble or you keeping it with red oxide etc?

[davenport 51]

Yup.. once everything is finalised its back to bare shell, any redundant holes welded up.. then off for full respray

[rallyeash 155]

Glad you said that! Be a shame not to have a decent paint job with all this effort.