[trackday_prep] Project 150

[RossD 43]

Been beavering away on the quiet, collecting parts for a BE4 gearbox conversion. Current box is from a Saxo VTR and the ratios are a bit too looooong. The BE4 box I have has better (Still not perfect) ratios and has the added bonus of being stronger, not that I've had any trouble with the current gearbox's reliability though.

 

Some pictures of shiney things..... (Clicky for bigger pics)

 

BE4J gearbox from a Xsara Picasso. Very short 1st and 2nd ratios, not ideal. 4th and 5th much better suited to the engines power curve though.

 

 

 

Genuine 1.6 GTi \ Diesel Driveshafts, 30 quid from Pug! Amazing what you can find by phoning around for stock that dealers want shifted...!

 

 

 

New Engine mount & Intermediate bearing carrier for the TU \ BE setup

 

 

 

Got a load of other smaller parts too, like new release bearing, cable support etc. I'm hoping to fit the box in a few weeks, so will document it as I do it!

Have yet to decide on the linkage setup for the gearchange yet, I may try a cable shift system, lifted from a petrol 406 with a BE4 box.

Edited May 30, 2009 by RossD

[RossD 43]

Well my £45 BE4 box is in and up and running! (The mount was broken hence the price, but an easy fix!) The only ballache was making up new linkages, as none of the 205 XU or TU ones would fit. I ended up going to my local scrappy and collecting 205 XU gear rods, with the removable ends - I then made custom length rods (50mm for the short one and 380mm for the long one!) and it all works rather well I had to use a mix of TU and XU gear rods from the gearstick too. I changed the lever on the top of the BE4 box to one from a 205 BE3 box. (The box uses a cable change system in the Picasso hence a different lever)

 

I used the standard clutch cable, routed around the front of the engine, converting the clutch to a 'pull' type system - Some use a Peugeot Partner clutch cable but I tried this and it didn't work well at all. I also took the opputunity to heat wrap the manifold as the clutch cable was passing so close too it.

 

Because I'm using an ECU, I needed to change the crank sensor bracket that holds the sensor. This is in a different position on the BE4 box - about 10 - 12 degrees different, so you need to update your ECU settings accordingly.

 

You need to use a new rear mount, from cars with the TU engine and BE box. The diff is in a slightly different position on the BE and so the driveshafts sit slightly rearwards - You can see from the pictures of the 2 mounts. Top is the new TU.BE mount, bottom is the old TU.MA mount.

 

Quick pic of the 2 boxes together - The BE looks like a stronger casing design than the MA.

 

In the car and finished - There is a BE4 box in there somewhere!

 

Overall it's much better mainly because of the ratios and the nicer shift. I did some in gear timings the other evening. 50-70mph in the various gears to demonstrate.

 

50-70 in 3rd: 4 seconds (About 6 seconds with old long ratio MA box)

50-70 in 4th: 7 seconds (About 10 seconds before)

50-70 in 5th: 10 seconds (About 15-16 seconds before)

 

More pictures of the conversion and parts here

Edited July 3, 2009 by RossD

[welshpug 1,621]

nice, may I be cheeky and ask which part number the mount was?

[RossD 43]

nice, may I be cheeky and ask which part number the mount was?

1807.H8 - £70.31

[Sam 4]

Should have said. I think I had one of those knocking around in the garage.

[RossD 43]

Not much been going on for the last few months, just been driving and enjoying the car! It's coming off the road soon for further engine work. I've been looking at having some headwork done for quite a while. Browsing the 106 Rallye Register last week I came across someone selling a nicely ported head, done by Mark Shillaber of SRD. It's just arrived on my desk today

 

First impressions are that it looks like a massive improvement over the standard head, so I'm hoping that it's going to give it quite a power boost. I've got some other tricks up my sleeve to further improve the engine, which I will do over the winter. (Basically increasing the compression ratio from the standard 10.2 to 11 something and headwork). I'm hoping the engine will then live up to the project name

 

I'll get some pics up of the head later - With a couple of pics of a standard head to show how much better this head looks.

Edited October 22, 2009 by RossD

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

First time I've read this Ross. Excellent stuff.

 

I actually have a secret TU based project brewing in the dark, clammy recesses of my mind. I've taken it up with Mr Brown himself to see what he says, as I certainly feel that he loves the TU engine and that it presents a whole bucket load of tuning opportunities.

 

Well done for sharing everything, as it will help me and many others.

 

On your project it would be interesting to see how much effort (cost basically) it took to gain the extra 18 horses to get you from 132 to the 150bhp goal.

 

One technical question to make this not sound like a total arse licking, is that I am intrigued as to why the TU blocks, even the iron ones are so much lighter? TU5 (i.e. 1587cc aka 1.6) I appreciate is smaller than most of th XU blocks I've been piddling with, but as an example it has a 2litre lower oil capacity, which in itself is an overall weight reduction of over 2kg.

 

What's so different about the TU block, and would someone/anyone say that the TU head is any better than the Mi16? Have Peugeot learnt the secret of the Black Magic box?

 

[Batfink 201]

the tu gearboxes are where most of the weight savings are. If you compare the 1.6 8v and 16v blocks with an xu comparison theres not masses of difference.

[swordfish210 20]

Nice stuff Ross, it would be good to see your car in the flesh sometime and see how different it drives compared to mine. TU's are the way forward

[RossD 43]

Yea, a meet sometime would be fun Saying that mine is off the road from 1st Nov over the winter whilst I build the new engine! Back on road in Jan 2010 hopefully.

 

Dr Sarty - Thanks for the encouragment! I don't think the 8v TU head would outflow the Mi16 by any stretch of the imagination, but as an overall package the head is probably just right for the engine. There is a good write up of modifying this type of head over on Guy Crofts forum, with plenty of nice juicy pictures. See here. The 16v TU head on the other hand is a much more modern design, downdraft ports and biggish port areas. Again, ultimate flow it doesn't stand up to an XU 16v head - I think the TU 16v will flow 90ish CFM at 10", with the XU about 120ish at 10" - but remember out and out flow isn't the whole story....

 

I don't know about the weights thing particularly - If the XU10 is anything like the block on my Xsara HDi (Which I suspect it is) then apart from beig physically bigger, I'm not sure there would be much of a weight difference between the cast iron TU block and the cast iron XU block. It's the alloy TU blocks which are nice and light - I think Sandy has mentioned 23Kg lighter! My car also has a BE4 box, which is somewhat heavier than the teeny MA it replaced.

 

As for the costs thing, well apart from spending out on this head, I've got some pistons from a TU 16v engine which a mate is going to machine some valve reliefs for the 8v engine. Along with the SRD head which has been skimmed, it should give the compression ratio a nice boost to around 11.5:1 or so, which should wake up the cam somewhat!

 

I'm going to strip and clean the head before I post any pictures, so hopefully by the end of tomorrow!

Edited October 23, 2009 by RossD

[Sandy 189]

Yep, the TU iron block is about the same weight as the XU Iron block, there isn't much in it.

[Sam 4]

If this is anything like my last lump (probably going to be better!) then it'll be a very nice motor. I do miss that car. It's all big CC V8s here, not quite the same (albeit very nice also)....

[RossD 43]

Don't get me wrong, it's a cracker of an engine as it is, lovely big rev range, very eager and makes a great noise, but you can never have enough power! A modified head and higher compression would always be the next step for it anyway.

 

Picture below shows a totally standard inlet port on the TU 8v engine. Lots of casting marks, not very well blended valve seat etc. (Click for fullsize)

 

Here's a nicely modified example

 

The head has also got some subtle changes to the combustion chambers around the valves.

The exhaust ports are a great improvement over the standard - I'm not too sure about the valve guide though, it's been cut right back; I'm not sure if this is going to cause problems with durability, but we'll see!

 

The only thing I've got to do is match my inlet manifold to the head, it'll mean opening it out slightly so there is no step (I've also done this on the current head).

 

I'll post more pictures as I go!

Edited October 24, 2009 by RossD

[RossD 43]

Just a quick update - The new head is ready to go on, the old head is off! Just waiting for my pistons to be machined and then I can assess the condition of the current engine block. Fingers crossed for a Jan \ Feb remap and rolling road

[Sam 4]

How's this going mate?

 

Cheers

Sam

[RossD 43]

Yep, going to get it MOT'd in the next week or so hopefully. Engine is back together with the new head on but I haven't driven it yet.

I need to re-do some of the wiring as at 20 years old some of it is getting a bit tired - Indicators that dont work, cooling fans that dont kick in unless the wiring is held in a certain position etc!

 

I'm going to take it back up to Emerald for a remap to account for the new head too, so hopfully can see how many ponies it has given it.....

[RossD 43]

Quick update - The car's insured from tomorrow and the MOT is booked for 3:30 on Saturday. Pretty sure it'll pass with no probs. Gonna wait until April to tax it though as I'll be dammed if I'm giving that shyster G.Brown any money when I haven't used the car for the majority of the month!

 

I also completely rewired the ECU loom in the engine bay using all new connectors, re-did a few of the earths around the headlights etc. Headlights and indicators now work properly! It seems that it's not the connector that's bolted to the chassis being the problem, it's the old plugs on the wries. I've replaced these as a temporary measure and sprayed them with lithium grease to try and keepo the moisture away. A more permenant solution will be done sometime in the future if I have problems again using a stainless bolt and some ring terminals I think!

 

Also a question. The big stud that screws into the gearbox and then into the mount on the chassis, should you use threadlock on this? I put mine all back together a few months back but didnt use any threadlock, just wondering if what's the best way to do it. My head is saying I probably should.....!

Edited March 18, 2010 by RossD

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Also a question. The big stud that screws into the gearbox and then into the mount on the chassis, should you use threadlock on this? I put mine all back together a few months back but didnt use any threadlock, just wondering if what's the best way to do it. My head is saying I probably should.....!

 

You mean threadlock on the stud going into the box? Good question, but probably no.

 

The OE nut which fits on top is a Nyloc so that's OK, and once everything's all pinched up I wouldn't imagine it could go anywhere. Certainly one never has in my lifetime, although I did omit 2 of the 4 bolts holding the battery tray in, and that nearly resulted in disaster.

[RossD 43]

LOL!

Yes, where the stud screws into the gearbox. I've removed some before that do have threadlock and some that don't.

[RossD 43]

MOT passed with flying colours - Tester was very complimentary about the car! Emissions were nice and low, CO 1.44% and HC's at 323ppm, so well within a pass.

 

THis was also the first drive I've had with the new head fitted. Even though it's not mapped for it (I'll be popping up to Dave Walker for a remap soon enough) you can tell there is a difference. Lots more low down torque(the increased compression ratio maybe?) and once it comes on cam it's crazy. The rolling road will tell though!

 

Edited March 20, 2010 by RossD

[welshpug 1,621]

he passed it with the handbrake cables dangling?

 

increased compression should help a lot especially at the lower end.

[RossD 43]

Yep. They're not totally dangling, they refuse to fit into the clips on the tank! That photo seems to exaggerate how they actually look.

[RossD 43]

Well, what can I say, I hate rear drum brakes! Whatever I do I cannot get the rear drums to produce as much effort as I think they should. They barely pass the MOT (But they do pass) but even though all of the components have been replaced and adjusted properly, the effort on the MOT rollers does not change!

 

So I'm converting to rear discs (Also because its a chance to fiddle with the car and discs look shiny, haha!) I've got the majority of the parts I need now so I'll post some nice pictures soon. Some £20 rear calipers from ebay from a 206 GTi have turned out to be a real bargain. I've stripped them down, replaced all the seals and they are as good as new. I've got the stub axles and caliper brackets (Cheers Baz, was good chatting to you and seeing some proper modified GTi's!) bearings, compensators etc, all I have to do is get some handbrake cables and then make an effort to actually bolt it all together. Updates with pictures will follow.....

Edited June 22, 2010 by RossD

[mickie 3]

you fitted new drums ? did you clean off the oil with petrol or anything ? if you think drums are bad you're in for a shock fitting the discs.

Edited June 23, 2010 by mickie

[RossD 43]

Nah seriously, the effort was barely scraping an MOT pass, they should have been so much better. Drums were pretty new anyway but have been removed and properly cleaned, new shoes, new cylinder, adjusted properly...... No change!

 

Anyway, changing to discs gives me an excuse to take the car apart, which is half the fun of 205 ownership really, haha!