Pace Dry Sump - Mi16

[Antoni1.9 0]

Hello Peter,

 

Regarding blanking off the Oil gallery, I asked Neil Patterson of Pace about this and he said that it was not needed. The high pressure in adapter feeds the oil into the centre of the where the oil filter used to be - so it goes straight up into the engine.

In the standard engine the pump supplies oil up the gallery and into the filter through the holes around the outer part of the housing. The opil then flows through the filter and into the engine via the hollow stud in the middle.

 

Hope that answers your query.

 

 

Antoni

[Shevy 4]

Hi Antoni,

 

I'm Just curious if you did any before and after R/R tests with the Pace system.

[Antoni1.9 0]

Hi Shevy,

 

Unfortunately I did not do any R/R test before, but it was recently roaded at 164 BHP at 7200 rpm. - The engine has done about 1500 miles since the rebuild.

 

I was a bit dissapointed with this as the engine has had a lot of head work by a company that I trust and have previous experience of, but it does have stock injection / induction and cams so maybe it is about right. It is still serioulsy quick though (1.6 gbox)

 

Fuelling and cams was next but unfortunatley I have to sell the car as I cant do track days anymore on health grounds.

 

The throttle response with the dry sump is shockingly fast - you seriously would'nt believe it.

 

Dry sump is well worth the effort.

[petert 550]

You're right about the oil feed. I was looking down the wrong hole.

[Jonmurgie 2]

Just priced up the parts I need to complete the install as per Antoni's guide and it works out as follows:

 

Oil Cooler - £69.14 inc VAT

Oil Pipes - £105.14 inc VAT

Pipe Fittings - £115.53 inc VAT

 

Total of: £299.79 inc VAT from Think Auto (Mocal distributor)

 

That's using the cheaper Moquip hose and fittings instead of the push on fittings as used in the guide, would be about double that price otherwise!

 

The tank is available from Forge Motorpsort at £126.31 inc VAT, about £60 cheaper than the Pace tank, though the pace tank splits in 2 for easy cleaning...

 

Total costs then is: £1317.45

 

Oh, and then there's the 10 litres of oil... 10 litres... hadn't even THOUGHT it would increase the ammount of oil needed!!

[findlay 0]

There's no P in my surname....

 

Sorry about that. Just glad there is no F in issue either

 

Even with all the costs and the pipework it just has to be better value than detonating even a strong standard engine to replace it with an unknown quantity of a new lump which may or may not prove as tough. Hmm 3 new engines over the life of the car or a 1.5k well spent? Know which I'd have

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Just priced up the parts I need to complete the install as per Antoni's guide and it works out as follows:

 

Oil Cooler - £69.14 inc VAT

Oil Pipes - £105.14 inc VAT

Pipe Fittings - £115.53 inc VAT

 

Total of: £299.79 inc VAT from Think Auto (Mocal distributor)

 

That's using the cheaper Moquip hose and fittings instead of the push on fittings as used in the guide, would be about double that price otherwise!

 

The tank is available from Forge Motorpsort at £126.31 inc VAT, about £60 cheaper than the Pace tank, though the pace tank splits in 2 for easy cleaning...

 

Total costs then is: £1317.45

 

Oh, and then there's the 10 litres of oil... 10 litres... hadn't even THOUGHT it would increase the ammount of oil needed!!

 

Or the weight

 

where will you fit a 10litre tank? in the boot/behind the seats?

[Jonmurgie 2]

It's a 5 litre tank... well I guess it will either be in the boot (as the guide) or behind the passenger seat (though was going to but the battery there!)

 

Weight is a good point, the sump weighs a TON... just gonna go and weigh it now! Will weight the bits no longer used on the car as well to see what difference it makes... some further weight saving may be in order!

[Jonmurgie 2]

The sump and pump weigh 7.5kg

[Antoni1.9 0]

Jon,

 

My install was using the cheaper hose and that is the push on type. The expensive stuff is the Aeroquip with the re-usable fittings. You will need the special adapter that Pace made as the push on -12 swept bend just wont fit on the pump in the available space between the sump trough. I found a cheaper supplier of parts for teh fittings on the internet and I am desperately trying to remember what they are called - The stuff I used on the accusump came from Think and they were not that cheap either. I gopt a discount from Neil if I bought everything from them - you could try that. I have all the prices at home if you want to know.

 

Didnt see a breather tank in your costing ?

 

You also could do with a decent pressure gauge - maybe you already have one ?

Edited March 28, 2006 by Antoni1.9

[Powers 13]

Looking good Jon. I am very jealous!

Regarding the increase in weight of the sump and pump i wouldnt worry about it too much as its virtually in the ideal place.

[Jonmurgie 2]

That is very true, right at the bottom of the car... infact I guess the engine may be able to be lowered as well?!

[smckeown 1]

It would be a major benefit if you could. I'm sure I looked into that during the 30 mins i seriously contemplated a dry sump about 2 years ago.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

I think that is something for arace car that is deisng around having the engine low (there was a picture of a 406 touring car and the engine looked like it was sat half way down the engine bay) but I think you'll have problems with driveshaft angle which isn't helped as the suspension is lowered too.

[smckeown 1]

Chris,

 

I've always wanted to know what the orientation of the angle is between engine and hub with a lowered car, which one of these is it:

 

engine/hub

engine\hub

 

if it's no1 then yes lowering engine will make it worse. I was hoping it was #2 and therefore lowering engine would help

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Lowering the engine would make it more the "wrong" way.

 

If you imagine the driveshafts are straight when the car is at standard ride height, then lower it, you effectively lift the hubs upwards relative to the engine (or the engine lower than the hubs), so lowering the engine moves them even more.

[Batfink 201]

That is very true, right at the bottom of the car... infact I guess the engine may be able to be lowered as well?!

 

sadely if you measure the rear depth of a standard sump and the rear depth of the dry sump they work out about the same. The engine may be able to be lowered a tiny bit but I think realistically its about 1cm max

 

I think that is something for arace car that is deisng around having the engine low (there was a picture of a 406 touring car and the engine looked like it was sat half way down the engine bay) but I think you'll have problems with driveshaft angle which isn't helped as the suspension is lowered too.

 

The touring cars i think sit the engines more upright and run the drivesshafts and box infront of the engine - the engine then sits far back in the enginebay and can be lowered

[Guest Cartooner]

This seems like the only right way to tackle the oil starvation problem, but.... a chain is as strong as it's weakest link. In this case the belt, which is unshielded and in harms' way, is definately the weakest link. One piece of gravel that gets wedged between the pulley and the belt could result in instant and permanent oil pressure loss. I would suggest shielding of the belt or some sort of ignition shut-off on pressure loss.

[Jonmurgie 2]

It's a very valid point... looking at the kit and the guide pics it's something that does look a little out there waiting to be hit, especially so close to the wheel! I guess that's another reason why it's only really suited to a track car... will maybe look at covering it somehow but that's a fair way down the line yet

[Guest Cartooner]

Well, inexperienced drivers may spend a lot of time driving through the gravel on a racetrack, though.

[Jonmurgie 2]

LOL... very good point

[Dream Weaver 2]

Get a nice sump guard fitted

[Jonmurgie 2]

that sounds.... HEAVY!! Will see what options I can think of when it goes together

[Batfink 201]

I agree. I am planning a thin alloy sheet to cover the bottom of the enginebay . not as strong as a sump guard but just to protect the enginebay from stones. Guess the inside of the wheelarch needs covering too!

 

Problem is this can seriously affect engine temperature

[findlay 0]

Get a nice sump guard fitted

 

It may be heavy but it'll tighten up the front of the car even more