Pace Dry Sump - Mi16

[Jonmurgie 2]

Well the most important part of my new engine arrived today

 

 

 

This really is a very nice piece of kit and once you actually see what goes in it the price doesn't seem 'too' bad! Right now I have no ideas how it all goes together etc. as there are no instructions but I know the guy Neil @ Pace is very helpful so will be getting him on the blower then the time comes!

 

There was an option to go for a remote oil filter so I've got that for easy oil changes etc. There are quite a few things left to get to complete the install but at least Matt @ QEP can start building the engine up!

 

Still on the shopping list are:

Dry Sump Tank

Oil Cooler

Pipe Work

 

The tank and cooler are easy, it's the pipe work that's going to be the fun part and a bit of an unknown at the moment! Will post any pics and progress here in the coming months

 

http://www.mdracing.co.uk/drysump.asp

[easypug 0]

This really is a very nice piece of kit and once you actually see what goes in it the price doesn't seem 'too' bad!

 

http://www.mdracing.co.uk/drysump.asp

 

OK i may aswell ask as i'm sure everyone wants to know the same thing, how much did it set you back all in? May be something i end up going with instead of the accusump if the price is right

[Antoni1.9 0]

OK i may aswell ask as i'm sure everyone wants to know the same thing, how much did it set you back all in? May be something i end up going with instead of the accusump if the price is right

 

 

 

 

Hello Jon,

 

I did this project with Pace last year. As part of an agreement that I had with them, I have written the "book" about fitting the system to the 205.

 

It is a 30 page document and is about a 2mb pdf. - It has all the pipe lengths, fittings , how to fill the system etc etc.

 

I can mail it to you if you like.

 

It is going to be on the Pace website soon

 

Let me know - I am happy to have it hosted on the 205 forum if someone can sort it for me.

 

 

Re ACCUSUMP - IT DOES NOT WORK IN A 205 Mi16 on the track - in my experience.

 

 

The Dry sump system will cost £1300 to £1500 all in - fitting it yourself.

 

Antoni

Edited March 27, 2006 by Antoni1.9

[Jonmurgie 2]

lol, ok well what you see pictured above came to £758.60 + VAT (£891.35). Then for the rest I'm looking at:

 

Dry Sump Tank - ~ £110 + VAT (forge)

Oil Cooler - ~ £60 + VAT (mocal)

Pipework - no idea, probably around £100 or maybe more with all the fixings as well.

 

So in total your easily looking at around £1200 with the VAT... but then if you've got a 5k engine or something then it's worth spending it to ensure it's saftey

[Batfink 201]

i paid £600 for my complete system lol

One day i'll fit it

[Jonmurgie 2]

Show off If your not going to fit it maybe you should sell it so someone else can enjoy the oil-stress-free lifestyle

Edited March 27, 2006 by Jonmurgie

[smckeown 1]

you are going to be even more of a nutter on track with that lot fitted and the higher output engine.

 

I've gone for the Accusump on my 8v in the hope that will prevent oil surge

[RobMGti 0]

Thats looka seriously decent bit of kit. Get the guide hosted!

[Batfink 201]

i can host the file

[Jonmurgie 2]

I've contacted Antoni so as soon as I get the file I'll load it up, bloody handy it sounds too

[findlay 0]

Nice bit of kit that is Good luck with the fitting Jon - and lets be honest - even for people running standard Mi16s - it just has to be worth doing versus the cost of another engine, a full rebuild & fitting

[Shevy 4]

Hello Jon,

 

I did this project with Pace last year. As part of an agreement that I had with them, I have written the "book" about fitting the system to the 205.

 

It is a 30 page document and is about a 2mb pdf. - It has all the pipe lengths, fittings , how to fill the system etc etc.

 

I can mail it to you if you like.

 

It is going to be on the Pace website soon

 

Let me know - I am happy to have it hosted on the 205 forum if someone can sort it for me.

Re ACCUSUMP - IT DOES NOT WORK IN A 205 Mi16 on the track - in my experience.

The Dry sump system will cost £1300 to £1500 all in - fitting it yourself.

 

Antoni

 

Antoni,

 

Have you run an ACCUSUMP on your mi engine before ?

I was looking at getting one of these, but I don't know of anyone that has run it on an mi16 engine yet and Obviously I was hoping for some positive feedback on the ACCUSUMP

[findlay 0]

I think Rob Thompson tried the Accusump.. or one of his friends did at least. Might be worth PMing him to ask how he got on or if he'd write a sticky thread for in here about it (save a few people some pennies)

[easypug 0]

Antoni,

 

Have you run an ACCUSUMP on your mi engine before ?

I was looking at getting one of these, but I don't know of anyone that has run it on an mi16 engine yet and Obviously I was hoping for some positive feedback on the ACCUSUMP

 

Mixed opinoins on here it seems:

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...300&hl=accusump

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...672&hl=accusump

[Jonmurgie 2]

I've seen the accusump used on many applications so I guess it must work... and it seems good value for money, though I don't think it's any substitute for a proper dry sump system... but then it's also about 1/5th the cost!

[Guest shaun]

that is a good peice of kit, im new on here and this is probably a stupid question but what exactly do you gain from a dry sump setup?

[Antoni1.9 0]

Hello Shevy,

 

Yes, I had a 6 pint accusump on the Mi, plumbed straight into the oil gallery (M16 thread with a 1/2" bore hose- which is really the minimum you need to get the flow). You are right about Rob Thomson, but it was on my car. He came over to have a look as he was interested in the Accusump.

 

For pre-oiling the engine it was great, but for protecting against oil starvation, it was of little use. I also had the Special tuning sump baffle & high pressure spring.

 

 

I used it at anglesey, braking hard for the hairpin saw the accusump empty, then turning right put the oil light on. Problem was that when you straightn up and accelerate, as the pump starts working again, instead of purely supplying the engine with oil, there is a period of time when you are refilling the accusump.

 

If you search, Rob wrote up a report on the trials we did on the road - on the appropriate engine with minor oil issues, I am sure it will be fine, but it wasnt on my Mi.

 

Also - I used it with a manual valve - the 405 touring cars had an electric system, where the accusump doesnt release until the engine pressure reaches 25 psi or so, and then it doesnt refill again until the engine pressure is about 50 psi or so. This would really help BUT - the costs are getting to about half that of the dry sump - and that works - BUT there are disavantages for a road car.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Antoni1.9

[Rob Thomson 6]

There's no P in my surname....

 

Yeah - the Accusump might help in marginal cases of oil starvation - but on the Mi (which gulps an unusually high quantity of oil) it seemed to make almost no difference on Antoni's car.

 

From an engineering point of view, the 'useful' quantity of oil that a 6-pint Accusump holds is only about a pint (from memory) because the pressure drops so quickly as oil is expelled. And on the Mi, a pint of oil lasts about a second - hardly a lot of use for long corners.

 

On a touring car it might have made the difference between finishing a race and not, but I was convinced that it was a load of old bollocks if you didn't want to rebuild your engine every weekend.

 

Jon - looks like there'll be two dry-sumped 205s in Cheltenham soon...

 

The other great thing with a dry-sump is that you essentially create a vacuum in the crankcase which cuts drag losses in the engine, and can give you 5-10 extra BHP at high revs.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Rob Thomson

[Antoni1.9 0]

Don't see any P in your surname Rob - sorry about that.

 

Are you also going down the dry sump route?

 

I have just emailed the guide to Jon so hopefully it should be available for all to view.

[Jonmurgie 2]

Just received the guide... how LUCKY do I feel that you've done all that and made that excellent guide mate, good work! I'll upload it in the morning (am on laptop now).

 

It's a very good guide folks, covers EVERYTHING with lots of nice pics too!

[Jonmurgie 2]

Managed to get it uploaded: http://www.canong3.co.uk/pug/mi16pacedrysump.pdf

 

I'll tell you what, I had NO idea it needed sooooooooo many pipes!! Will defo arrange to come and take a look over your car this weekend Antoni, will give you a bell tomorrow

[jackherer 543]

Just received the guide... how LUCKY do I feel that you've done all that and made that excellent guide mate,

 

I saw Antoni's dry sump install in the metal so to speak and it looked very tidy to say the least.

[Rob Thomson 6]

Don't see any P in your surname Rob - sorry about that.

 

Are you also going down the dry sump route?

 

I have just emailed the guide to Jon so hopefully it should be available for all to view.

 

No worries about the 'P' - everybody in the world gets it wrong. I pretend to be offended to wind people up. Besides which, my name should actually be Jones or something sensible like that but my Great Great Grandfather ran off with his house-keeper and changed his name to 'Thomson' to avoid being found by his (presumably hideous) wife. Anyway, if he'd have put a 'P' in his made-up name it would have saved me a lot of trouble...

 

Back on topic... yeah, I'm getting a Pace system for the rally car when it finally rolls out of the garage (sometime in 2014 if I sustain my current work-rate) - although in the first instance it'll have to make do with a standard engine that'll blow-up the first time I go round a corner.

 

I've also seen Antoni's installation - and there are a LOT of pipes (which are frighteningly expensive)! It certainly isn't a bolt-on modification, lots of fiddling about to fit it. However, it's certainly a great bit of kit and is evidently the ultimate solution to the Mi's achilies heel.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Rob Thomson

[RobMGti 0]

That guide is superb, just had a full read through. Exellent pics.

 

The pipeing tho :S that is crazy amounts

[petert 550]

Certainly well put together. But it doesn't mention anything about blocking off the pressure gallery from the oil pump into the block. Do I assume the face of the new sump is wide enough to block this hole off? Otherwise, pressurised oil would pour back into the sump. I tapped mine 9/16 UNF ready for a bung.