Mi Baffle Sump

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

What car does the tin/steel sump come from that people refer to then?  Is this the S16 sump or is it from an 8v?

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The tin sump on the 1.9 8v (AFAIK) is unique to that engine as it's a shallow sump because it also uses a stiffener/spacer like the 1.9 Mi16 which uses a shallow alloy sump (or sometimes the same steel sump as the 1.9 8v).

 

The other steel sumps found on the 1.6gti, most of XUs, including the S16 (I think) uses a deeper sump as they don't run a stiffener/spacer. Howevre the GTi-6 uses a deep sump that is alloy.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

I think they just fitted whatever sumps were closest to hand - I've had 405's with steel sumps.

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Maybe but the alloy sumps are needed if you have air conditioning like me. And they alloy sump has those heat dispersing fins.

[willxs 0]

so is there any sumps you can swap with the mi to overcome this problem? or is it the same with any sump?

[petert 550]

Apparently all 405 Mi16s were alloy sumped, but it was 50:50 alloy and steel on the BX 16v Mi16 engines.

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All the BX16V engines I've seen have had an alloy finned sump, probably because all Australian cars have A/C.

 

ALL the XU10 engines I've seen, whether 8V or 16V, have had the plain alloy trap door sump.

 

The easiest way to get a reasonably good setup is use the XU10 baffled sump (plus the pump baffle) on an alloy block.

[Kitsune 0]

I wish i'd kept my 8v sump now. Bugger.

[Guest web]

I must say even the stock baffles (no windage tray) found in XU10 8v engines work very well. Even those with steel pans.

 

Without baffles (std XU9 setup) I'd get pressure drop and warning lights even with the oil at the FULL mark and long cloverleaf turns taken really (REALLY) hard... with the XU10 sump no worries at all even sub-LOW oil levels... only very hard braking and running very low can bring on the STOP light with that pan!

 

I raced my car around a small track this weekend, with rapid succession of long and short twists and turns, without incident. Oil was at 2/3 between full and low.

 

Now I find myself wondering... what do I gain from fitting a windage tray to the new engine I'm building? As well as the proven baffled pan.

 

Does it act as a crank scraper, reducing oil running friction?

[Bonzai 2]

I've been trying to tell people this for months..........

 

does the sump spacer have to be used with an xu10 sump though?

 

if so, how does one go about lengthening the pickup on the pump?

[petert 550]

does the sump spacer have to be used with an xu10 sump though?

 

only if you want a larger oil capacity and more oil around the pickup

 

 

if so, how does one go about lengthening the pickup on the pump?

 

This is how I do it, but there are various other ways. Do a search.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...03entry402303

[Bonzai 2]

but the engine will be ok without the spacer plate?

 

this is my main concern about fitting the xu10 sump. im not too worried about the extra oil content. id rather have the extra ground clearance

[petert 550]

id rather have the extra ground clearance

 

Is your car a paddock basher or soemthing! It's only 15mm extra.

 

You can certainly bolt the XU10 sump to an XU9 without the plate/stiffener. You'll need shorter bolts however. The only concern is whether the plate does act as a stiffening member, increasing rigidity. Eight valve engines didn't have the plate until the XU9JAZ, so make up your own mind.

[Anthony 1,000]

Eight valve engines didn't have the plate until the XU9JAZ, so make up your own mind.

Over here all the 1.9 GTi engines (XU9JA and XU9JAZ) had the spacer on them, in addition to the 1.9 Mi16 engines. All the other flavours of 1.9 8v (XU9J1, XU9J2 etc) and all the 1.6 8v engines were spacerless though.

[Livelee 0]

We have just got hold of a Gti6 sump to fit on to a mates Mi, were still not sure what else is inside the six engine other than the a baffle and trap door sump that stop surge, but whatever in there cures the problem totally.

Cheers Martin

 

I've been trying to tell people this for months..........

 

Sorry for the bump, but..

 

So does a standard sump for a 306 GTi6 fit straight onto a mi16 engine? If I phone a breaker tomorrow and ask for one all I need to ask for is the sump?

 

I've just fitted a mechanical gauge and realised i'm getting 0 oil pressure on some long bends.

[James_m 0]

Yes it will fit straight on, and you dont need the gti-6 sump specifically, all XU10 sumps are the same.

[Livelee 0]

Yes it will fit straight on, and you dont need the gti-6 sump specifically, all XU10 sumps are the same.

 

Cool, where would be the best place to get one from and what should I expect to pay?

[James_m 0]

Breakers yard, here, ebay, possibly 306 gti-6 forum. About £20 would be fair i reckon, btw you are aware you will need an extended oil pump pick up?

[Livelee 0]

You've preempted my next question :-) Is the xu10 sump deeper as standard? I'm confident my dad can fabricate a ring and then weld it onto the pickup to make it longer.

[SweetBadger 91]

You've preempted my next question :-) Is the xu10 sump deeper as standard? I'm confident my dad can fabricate a ring and then weld it onto the pickup to make it longer.

 

I posted about my progress with this a while ago... So far so good, haven't got the gauge to move with the new setup on the road, will be at brands hatch on 14th dec so can give it a propper test then.

 

I bought a pickup extender from petert and bolted/sealed it onto the bottom of the pump. It would be better to have it welded but it works fine bolted in place, then bolted on a GTi6 sump and kept the spacer/stiffner plate to increase the oil capacity...

 

Anyway some pictures of the extended pump (the rust is there because the bloody shed roof leaked and filled the sump with water which had the oil pump in it! ).

 

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b49/swee...er/CIMG0007.jpg

 

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b49/swee...er/CIMG0008.jpg

 

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b49/swee...er/CIMG0010.jpg

 

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b49/swee...er/CIMG0006.jpg

 

This was done using a dremel and a hand drill so I'm sure with some better tools you could make a neater job of it!

 

Other things to note are that:

 

The MI sump uses 4 longer socket head cap screws whereas the gti6 sump only uses 2, so you will need 2 extra standard sump bolts.

 

The 2 longer bolts which go under the AC compresser bracket will not be long enough when using the spacer plate, so you will need to drill out the 2 XU10 sump holes (12 mm bit) by the depth of the spacer plate so that the original bolts fit or use longer bolts.

 

Finally you will also need to get hold of a later type oil temp sensor as the earlier one has a different thread

[James_m 0]

What cars was the later type oil temp sensor fitted to?

[Livelee 0]

Perfect post, thanks Badger

 

then bolted on a GTi6 sump and kept the spacer/stiffner plate to increase the oil capacity...

 

Does the GTi6 sump come with a spacer / stiffner? Or is this something that needs to be brought seperately? Went to pug today and they want £200 for the sump LOL. I'll have to PM Petert and see how quickly he can deliver as I have Bedford booked for the start of December.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Livelee

[James_m 0]

Spacer plate will all ready be on your mi16

[Livelee 0]

Great thanks. I'll take it apart this weekend.

[Dazza 4]

WAW it appear's there's light on the old surge issue .Brilliant .

 

Call me names ,but can someone just clarify what i need for my Alloy 1905 cc Mi engine to prevent the oil surge issue ?

 

1 GTI 6 SUMP or any XU10 alloy sump inc trap door insert , i have an S16 sump is this any use ?

2 Windage tray from GTi 6 or other XU10's to mount onto the Mi spacer frame ?

3 15mm extended oil pick-up from Peter t ?

 

4 anything else ?????

 

Thanks .

[Livelee 0]

WAW it appear's there's light on the old surge issue .Brilliant .

 

Call me names ,but can someone just clarify what i need for my Alloy 1905 cc Mi engine to prevent the oil surge issue ?

 

1 GTI 6 SUMP or any XU10 alloy sump inc trap door insert , i have an S16 sump is this any use ?

2 Windage tray from GTi 6 or other XU10's to mount onto the Mi spacer frame ?

3 15mm extended oil pick-up from Peter t ?

 

4 anything else ?????

 

Thanks .

 

I've got an extended pickup from Peter on the way. I've also just ordered a GTi6 sump. I've not got a Windage tray though, i've not seen this mentioned before. What is it?

[sam1312 0]

mines being tigged atm but i wasnt planning on using a wndage tray, whys is this needed or is it not?

[Livelee 0]

mines being tigged atm but i wasnt planning on using a wndage tray, whys is this needed or is it not?

 

Just done some searching. Peter said in a previous post: "The windage tray stops the crank picking up the oil. It separates the two areas." I don't think is is needed to stop oil surge and I think the ux10sump and his pump extender will be fine.