Aftermarket Management

[Sandy 189]

I don't think "the UK is behind in aftermarket ECU's", I think that's a bit harsh, considering most of the worlds leading ECU systems come from here. Having tested batch and wasted spark against sequential quite extensively, there are benefits to smoothness from sequential and I've observed some improvement in fuelling precision, but nominal benefits at best and don't work as well as a rule as well chosen and positioned twin injectors, which I can do on £550 DTA better than any other system I've tried under £1000.

Sadly forums largely drive the misguided ECU choices people often make, based on spec sheets and prices; much of which is academic when you see how many mappers really don't bother setting them up properly (i'm sorry to say that, but it's really rare to see what I would consider a good job) and the design of the inlet/injectors etc is often given little real thought.

 

On the subject of Megasquirt... I get asked to do them alot and given I did my best to break through with it, because I could see that in principal it could offer great value and I could support a system that most mappers will refuse. But after a few jobs the frustration got too much, unfortunately for me it's become it's synonymous with poorly made hardware, crude wiring looms, software compatibility issues, lack of clarity, component failure and settings drift. Even if I could make a good job of it on the day, it wouldn't be long before the customer rang with problems, when the DTA/OMEX/Emeralds etc would generally go on and on perfectly. With all the problems that I've encountered, I don't think you can make a safe case for it in reality.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Sandy

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

On the subject of Megasquirt... I get asked to do them alot and given I did my best to break through with it, because I could see that in principal it could offer great value and I could support a system that most mappers will refuse. But after a few jobs the frustration got too much, unfortunately for me it's become it's synonymous with poorly made hardware, crude wiring looms, software compatibility issues, lack of clarity, component failure and settings drift. Even if I could make a good job of it on the day, it wouldn't be long before the customer rang with problems, when the DTA/OMEX/Emeralds etc would generally go on and on perfectly. With all the problems that I've encountered, I don't think you can make a safe case for it in reality.

 

If the MS is built right using the known "upgrades" then is will be as reliable any other electronic device, the issue that most of the time they are not! Software wise, things are much more stable than they were a few years ago. All the issues I've had with mine have been self made, and now I've stopped playing with it, it has been fine. The issue I have with the MS is the lack of understandable, and detailed documentation.

 

However agreed, as a business trying to doing something with a customer built MS could very well be more hassle than its worth!

 

I would also agree with the comment find a mapper your happy with and go with a system they are happy to map and support.

 

Mad

[petert 554]

I don't think "the UK is behind in aftermarket ECU's", I think that's a bit harsh, considering most of the worlds leading ECU systems come from here.

 

You're winding me up........

 

Anway, my point being, that you seem to pay a lot for your locally made ECU's.

[Carbs4me 45]

Looks like a TTV flywheel, Make sure you check the age of it if you can as the early one strip the teeth of the ring gear and the clutch face can also not be flat

 

Your right i checked on their website. Thanks for the info on the flywheel!

 

What do you mean by the clutch face cant be flat? can you show me an example of a product please, as the clutch is one of the things on the list of things to buy.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Carbs4me

[rallysteve 22]

He means the face of the flywheel where the clutch friction disc engages with might not be flat. It would be worth taking it to a machine shop to get it checked to save problems further down the line. It should ba able to be machined flat i would imagine.

[welshpug 1,626]

haltech platinum sprint can do 4 cylinder sequential, but is at list price of 1042 USD with a flying lead, currently that's £659 as a straight conversion, total with duty and VAT will be circa £850.

 

An S60 or 710 will set you back around £800-£850, the non sequential S40+600 are circa £550.

 

 

So are we really paying a lot for our ECU's?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The age which is very hard to tell is the main issue, the early ones where built from low grade steel which wasn;t really upto the job, the later ones have address'd this but you still go the odd one with Ring gear issue's

[Carbs4me 45]

He means the face of the flywheel where the clutch friction disc engages with might not be flat. It would be worth taking it to a machine shop to get it checked to save problems further down the line. It should ba able to be machined flat i would imagine.

 

Already done that, i thought he where on about the clutch not been flat.

 

I was talking to one of my mates who is in the midde of doing a bike TB conversion on a nova he has a self made the loom for his ecu, cant remember which one he said he used tho! And reckons he can do mine loom in a night or so.... but i havent heard this nova running yet!

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Building a loom can be a time consuming job, especially if you start from scratch and don't use an OE loom as a starting point.

 

Putting that into context - and I'm not for 1 minute suggesting you can't DIY - if I were to make a loom for someone as I have in the past, I would charge around £300. This includes brand new wires and connectors, custom built to be tidy and neat in the relevant engine bay.

 

The loom is perhaps the last of your worries though, if you take heed of the advice (warning) about the Bogg Bros manifold and TB set up it looks like you're going to use.

 

Trust me and others on here who've been there and done it, trying to do this on a shoestring budget is noble, but you often end up redoing it and paying twice both financially and in terms of your own time and frustration.

[petert 554]

haltech platinum sprint can do 4 cylinder sequential, but is at list price of 1042 USD with a flying lead, currently that's £659 as a straight conversion, total with duty and VAT will be circa £850.

 

An S60 or 710 will set you back around £800-£850, the non sequential S40+600 are circa £550.

 

 

So are we really paying a lot for our ECU's?

 

I'm not sure why you started with a US retail price, then added taxes etc., but for comparison, entry level Sprint 500 is AUS$1090 (inc. tax) RRP. A Sport 1000 is approx. $1800. A Motec M4 is approx. $1900.

 

Why don't you contact a UK dealer? Such as AET Motorsport? They're a dealer for both Motec and Haltech.

 

http://www.aet-motorsport.co.uk/store

[welshpug 1,626]

I used USD because the Haltech website stated USD

 

$1090 aus is £682 straight, with all the import etc its roughly £875.

 

Can't see any UK dealers with prices listed.

[Carbs4me 45]

Noted, ive not yet decided if thats the root i will want to go down tbh!

 

As to what has been said regarding the Bog brother manifold...would i bet better with a set of 45 dellorto carbs I ask this because my mate has a good fully built set which he never fitted to his mk2 Golf and i might be able to blag them off him for 350 which is what he payed then i will be short of a manifold.

 

But surely i can flog my bike TB's bike carbs and the Bog brothers manifold on Ebay for the price of the carbs or if not almost nearly there!

 

That would probly be the cheapest route to go down? but then again.. not as reliable and MPG wont be as good a TB's.

 

I dont have a massive amount of money either, so the quickest option is probly the best for me? what you do guys reckon?

 

Once ive got everything i need i will post a Build thread so you can actually see whats been done!

Edited May 22, 2012 by Carbs4me

[welshpug 1,626]

Just save up a little longer and do a proper job.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

would i bet better with a set of 45 dellorto carbs

 

What do you mean 'better off'?

 

Ditch the idea of carbs and do it right with bodies and full management based on what you can afford and when you can afford it.

 

We're going round in circles with your questions a bit here, and also developed a parallel topic on which nation has the 'best' options for ECU choices and functionality versus cost.

[Carbs4me 45]

Better as in cheaper, in my budget... baring in mind ive spent about 2k on this engine now in the last 12 month. cheap isnt always my best option but eveytime i spend money on the car the misses starts!

 

Very true, Ok i shall stop with my blabbering! I will ring afew of my local Rolling Roads and revert the ECU's they recommend on friday.

 

I will stick with the R1 TB's and get a ECU in the next 2-3month, and give my mate a chance to make the loom up for the ECU.

 

And see what comes of the bog brothers manifold.

[welshpug 1,626]

have you spoken to Wayne at chipwizards?

[Carbs4me 45]

Im working stupid hours this week but i benefit from having a friday off!

 

So i shall ring them up and see what they say

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

If you don't mind, could you post up his preference on ECU's to map? I live local and would be interested.

[Carbs4me 45]

No problem.. I will get a price for Rolling road test and what he recommends ECU wise.

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

have you spoken to Wayne at chipwizards?

Wayne doesn't often answer his phone so good luck with that one but when he does, he gives good info on options & the various ecu's he'll work with to find the best suited one for you.

 

g

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

No problem.. I will get a price for Rolling road test and what he recommends ECU wise.

 

It's NOT a rolling road test! I'm sure it's just your choice of words, but this is a typed forum medium and it's all we've got.

 

The rolling road CAN be used for power runs, but it's prime use in this scenario is to effectively load the engine at different 'sites' to get fuelling and ignition correct (and boost if applicable), with opportunities to tweak cam timing, inlet systems and perhaps other things.

 

It's basically a static road, which is the nearest you can get to mapping on the road, which is the ideal method but not always practical. Road mapping after a RR set up session would confirm settings made and allow further tweaks, especially checking mixtures in different, real-world scenarios.

[Carbs4me 45]

Ok, I couldnt get though to the guy a chipwizards so i rang some guy i got recommended from a facebook group... For what i want he said Mega squirt!

 

Because i want to be "Flash" i want to be able to have a laptop in the car and have the following 3 stages

 

1) road use

2) Full power

3) rev limited

 

This is his reply....

 

"best way is build your own megasquirt ecu. veyvsimple and self mappable"

 

Company is Remap Wizard

[Anthony 1,000]

Emerald K3/K6 can support three seperate maps and can be switched using a switch, rather than needing the laptop.

 

I'm personally far from convinced for the need for a "road" map and a "full power" map on an moderately tuned NA car though. Just have it mapped for the fuel that you intend to use, and if done properly, you shouldn't need anything else.

 

Also, I'd rather travel to get a good job done than choose somewhere just because they're on my doorstep - last year I travelled down to Cornwall to get Sandy to do the mapping because I knew he'd do a good job (and my faith wasn't misplaced I'm happy to say) rather than taking it to somewhere more local who were unknown given the night and day difference between a good map and a poor one.

[Carbs4me 45]

I was thinking K3 originally, after a bit of research i did. I wanted a laptop mainly for the reason that i was thinking along the lines that it would keep me up to date with any problems the engine might develop in the years to come... but obviously that's something i have to look into, as i don't know if there is a program that will do it! and maybe steal some internet from the local McDonald's when out with friends.

 

I'm not gonna go off with the first map guys i find, as i want recommendations from a few before i make my decision this is just one of 2 i asked today.

 

I think Cornwall is a bit too far for me, especially for an engine I'm not sure how reliable it will be when its done! but i shall think about it and see how confident i feel when the time comes!

 

If sandy could recommend me a ECU and a price to give it a map, i will take it into consideration. and work out the travel expenses and possibly a place to stay for the night.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

DTA are around Manchester and are good, They I know are good at mapping too as I see him once a year abit not for mapping