Building Bottom Arms With Rose Joints - If We All Chip In Money Saved

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Absolutely; I totally understand what you're trying to achieve. I suggest you go for it, do it, and prove everyone wrong

[205_sunderland 4]

A friend of mine makes these for a living as well as other "Motorsport" parts.......ie alloy hubs, perspex windows, Escort TCA's, Atlas Axle braces etc etc. With over 40 years experience as an MOD engineer he certainly knows what he's doing.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think you friend would do you a drawing of the location bolt? and suggest his brand and size or rose joint , if he knows his stuff his knowledge will be a brilliant edition to this project

 

PS no-one has enlightened me how these bolts locate ok with there been a slot in the hub still ?

Edited July 7, 2011 by 205_sunderland

[Rippthrough 98]

the insert etc should be buttons to buy as arms arent exactly made out of hypermetapoly alloy themselves are they,

 

No, but then the stock arms don't have a high-strength joint threaded into them. Don't underestimate the preload you'll need to keep those joints tight...

[205_sunderland 4]

No, but then the stock arms don't have a high-strength joint threaded into them. Don't underestimate the preload you'll need to keep those joints tight...

 

 

very true, thats why ill make sure i use a tried and tested size to allow enough tightening of them

[205wrc 16]

205WRC: How much are those?

 

I posted this last year. I'll double check the price with him tomorrow as it's a bit late to ring him tonight. He can either supply you with new arms.....or, modify your existing ones.

Like I said, give him a drawing and he'll make it for you! Jeff had a stand in the Race Retro show in Stonleigh, and also a stand in the Rally Day at Castle Combe.

I can guarantee his work 100% - he does all my personal machining work. He also makes components for West Wales Rally Spares and Historic Rally Sport etc.

He's in the process of making me some wheel studs - not the stud conversion type, but something similar to a Group 4 Escort type which screws through the hub and has a nut on the back of the hub t hold them. The back of the hub has to be machined flat to accept the nuts.

He's also making me a PTS spec rear brake conversion - we'll see how that turns out

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=118000&st=0&p=1063405&fromsearch=1entry1063405

[205wrc 16]

Do you think you friend would do you a drawing of the location bolt? and suggest his brand and size or rose joint , if he knows his stuff his knowledge will be a brilliant edition to this project

 

PS no-one has enlightened me how these bolts locate ok with there been a slot in the hub still ?

 

Have a look at my last post and click the link at the bottom

[205_sunderland 4]

I posted this last year. I'll double check the price with him tomorrow as it's a bit late to ring him tonight. He can either supply you with new arms.....or, modify your existing ones.

Like I said, give him a drawing and he'll make it for you! Jeff had a stand in the Race Retro show in Stonleigh, and also a stand in the Rally Day at Castle Combe.

I can guarantee his work 100% - he does all my personal machining work. He also makes components for West Wales Rally Spares and Historic Rally Sport etc.

He's in the process of making me some wheel studs - not the stud conversion type, but something similar to a Group 4 Escort type which screws through the hub and has a nut on the back of the hub t hold them. The back of the hub has to be machined flat to accept the nuts.

He's also making me a PTS spec rear brake conversion - we'll see how that turns out

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=118000&st=0&p=1063405&fromsearch=1entry1063405

 

 

thanks bud, do you think hed let the sizes for the pins slip?

Edited July 7, 2011 by 205_sunderland

[Cameron 16]

You can see the slot machined into the drop pin in 205wrc's post.

 

If you can't get a drawing I can knock one up for you (I did mention this before..) I'm an engineer at a large motor company y'see.

[205_sunderland 4]

You can see the slot machined into the drop pin in 205wrc's post.

 

If you can't get a drawing I can knock one up for you (I did mention this before..) I'm an engineer at a large motor company y'see.

 

 

If you could get drawings itll be awsome bud, i dont have any spare parts at all, and working for a money grabbing bank call centre now so have no free time at all to measure parts etc so really appreciate the help

[205wrc 16]

You're lucky it's a dry night........Just been out measuring mine.

 

They are 16mm diameter (same as a standard ball joint), and roughly 85mm - 90mm long (shank length). The top shoulder of the pin is about 7mm thick, but ground down at a slight angle to clear the cv joint. M16 thread on the other end with a nyloc nut

[wracing 19]

Why use a rose joint at all, your target market is fast road, track use. Wouldn't a modified wishbone with increased camber designed to accept a replaceable BJ from an OEM application that was proven and truly fit for purpose be better.

 

If I'm not mistaken you don't really want to be adjusting camber angle on the rod end anyway. My reason for this is because bending moments conform to force multiplied by distance I'm sure ill be corrected if I'm wrong but this means the more you wind out the threads the bending moment increases rather quickly.

 

Personally I think you would be far better off to design a wishbone that offered a fixed level of camber addition that would accept a proven removable BJ fitted to thousands of cars. I spent some time designing my wishbones to accept the 306 ball joint with spherical bearing inners laser cut out of plate the bearings are held in CDS tube Tigged on to the plate. the thing that stopped me marketing these items was the liability issue, even selling kit parts not for road use still assumes some liability. My wishbones cost me no more than £100 for a pair. There is a thread on this but i will not post any drawings because that assumes liability but from the pictures i have posted im sure you could come up with your own design.

 

I understand your sentiment, i just don't think you understand the legal ramifications. They stopped me i wish you better luck

 

James

Edited July 7, 2011 by wracing

[SurGie 54]

The shanks on mine are 100mm in length and the overall size is bigger, weights about 1kg in total.

 

There is "FCURO" printed on it.

[205wrc 16]

Your hubs must have been re-drilled then to accomodate the larger diameter pin.

[205_sunderland 4]

Why use a rose joint at all, your target market is fast road, track use. Wouldn't a modified wishbone with increased camber designed to accept a replaceable BJ from an OEM application that was proven and truly fit for purpose be better.

 

If I'm not mistaken you don't really want to be adjusting camber angle on the rod end anyway. My reason for this is because bending moments conform to force multiplied by distance I'm sure ill be corrected if I'm wrong but this means the more you wind out the threads the bending moment increases rather quickly.

 

Personally I think you would be far better off to design a wishbone that offered a fixed level of camber addition that would accept a proven removable BJ fitted to thousands of cars. I spent some time designing my wishbones to accept the 306 ball joint with spherical bearing inners laser cut out of plate the bearings are held in CDS tube Tigged on to the plate. the thing that stopped me marketing these items was the liability issue, even selling kit parts not for road use still assumes some liability. My wishbones cost me no more than £100 for a pair. There is a thread on this but i will not post any drawings because that assumes liability but from the pictures i have posted im sure you could come up with your own design.

 

I understand your sentiment, i just don't think you understand the legal ramifications. They stopped me i wish you better luck

 

James

 

How does it make you liable making a drawing mate? if you have no physical part in making them its got nothing to do with you at all ? this seems like a bit of the old american where theres blame theres a claim bulls*it polluting our none retarded world once again...correct me if im wrong?

[SurGie 54]

Your hubs must have been re-drilled then to accomodate the larger diameter pin.

 

The hub shank not thread shank is the same 16mm.

[wracing 19]

Unfortunately I can't correct you but it is how it is in the western world.

 

If you killed 10 people on a motorway I'm sure you employ a solicitor to defend you, a credible defence is that what you have already admitted you don't understand the field and you quite simply replicated what you thought was a credible design, thus liability is not of your own but that of the designer.

 

It is how it is at the moment which is why there is a large mark-up from these Motorsport companies not only to pay the wages but to pay the insurance.

 

I wish it wasn't like this.

 

James

[205_sunderland 4]

Unfortunately I can't correct you but it is how it is in the western world.

 

If you killed 10 people on a motorway I'm sure you employ a solicitor to defend you, a credible defence is that what you have already admitted you don't understand the field and you quite simply replicated what you thought was a credible design, thus liability is not of your own but that of the designer.

 

It is how it is at the moment which is why there is a large mark-up from these Motorsport companies not only to pay the wages but to pay the insurance.

 

I wish it wasn't like this.

 

James

 

 

thats disgusting, ill not post the drawings, i make it the case they will only be availiable on request to who i trust fit, problem solved, i trust people on here...plus ill get your address before you get the drawings so i know where you live,

 

i have done kick boxing,jui jitsu,normal boxing and wrestling as part of the mma training ive done over the years so you have been warned :lol: :lol:

 

Edited July 8, 2011 by 205_sunderland

[Flozman 4]

Just spent a good 45 minutes catching up on this thread, My feelings toward Motorsport companies has always been the same, id rather make up my own mind regarding the methods they use. Some parts are priced with a little scene tax, the better your reputation is the more money you can charge because people like to have well known brands on cars as well as their clothes. Yes I also know the overheads are crazy, this is Britain after all!!!

 

But when it we are talking Motorsport spec ball joints, they simply cannot afford to piss arse about they have to be over engineered to such a degree that they might be ten times stronger than any force they are ever likely to encounter. One single failure and its shut up shop time.

 

Okay now having said that all I want is a ball joint that lasts much longer and can handle the pot holes on the way to work. Can this be done or do we always have to go rally grade?

 

Thanks

Floz

[205_sunderland 4]

You can see the slot machined into the drop pin in 205wrc's post.

 

If you can't get a drawing I can knock one up for you (I did mention this before..) I'm an engineer at a large motor company y'see.

 

 

This is the sizes i need and for the sake of the terrible americanised world we live in now which makes me sick, just fill it out and send it to me via pm, and suggestions on material to use?

 

and i did the drawing on paint so dont be blown away

 

Edited July 8, 2011 by 205_sunderland

[Tom Fenton 1,585]

My dims, use at your own risk, these suit my application and needs only.

 

Plain shank length 55mm

Thread length 20mm

Thread form M16x2

Head length 4mm

Head dia 24mm with flat to core dia one side

Shank diameter 15.98-16.00mm

Notch dims no info as I will machine in situ.

[Cameron 16]

That's not bad for MS Paint - boy got skills.

 

I'll try and knock up a proper drawing tonight for you, handily I have a 205 in pieces so it should be pretty easy to measure everything.

[205_sunderland 4]

That's not bad for MS Paint - boy got skills.

 

I'll try and knock up a proper drawing tonight for you, handily I have a 205 in pieces so it should be pretty easy to measure everything.

 

 

cheers bud just let me know when you got the sizes im still waiting back on prices for aurora joints yet

[205wrc 16]

Here you go.......

 

This is the chap I was on about

 

http://jsmotorsport-machining.co.uk/

 

This is only a small example of his work - contact him direct for prices etc.

[205_sunderland 4]

Here you go.......

 

This is the chap I was on about

 

http://jsmotorsport-machining.co.uk/

 

This is only a small example of his work - contact him direct for prices etc.

 

i highly doubt hell give me the drawings though if i ring up and ask

Edited July 9, 2011 by 205_sunderland

[205wrc 16]

i highly doubt hell give me the drawings though if i ring up and ask

 

Hmmmmmm.........NO

 

But he'll sell you a pair of Rose Joints.......or even a pair of arms.