Location Of Brown Plugs?!

[welshpug 1,622]

here is the single plug that was on a 1987 P1.5 that I installed an S16 into.

 

 

all other ancillary wiring and ignition coil wiring was on the other side of the engine bay.

 

 

and this is the engine bay/ecu side of the loom, note position of Tachymetric relay, earlier Phase 1 cars had this in a small box in the engine bay on the left hand chassis rail, which may explain why you haven't found a brown plug as yet.

 

Edited January 6, 2009 by welshpug

[Saveit 0]

here is the single plug that was on a 1987 P1.5 that I installed an S16 into.

 

and this is the engine bay/ecu side of the loom, note position of Tachymetric relay, earlier Phase 1 cars had this in a small box in the engine bay on the left hand chassis rail, which may explain why you haven't found a brown plug as yet.

 

The thicker blue wire that is showed on you picture (which you appearently clipped?) have i also found in my car. Just dont remember it going to a plug? Think it comes from the ECU plug in the right hand side and goes behind the heater over to the driver side (left hand) and out through the hole in the wall to the enginecompartment.

 

Also

 

My car does have a small box in the engine bay exactly as you describe! Is there any wires or plugs in that black box that i need?

[welshpug 1,622]

sounds like you have a Phase 1 wiring loom where the Tachymetric relay is in the engine bay.

[Saveit 0]

And isnt this tachymetric relay redundant now? What exactly does this relay do?!

[welshpug 1,622]

yes it is if you are installing the Mi16 management system, its basically the fuel pump relay.

[Saveit 0]

So what do i do with? Pull it out? Connect one of the wires to the fuel pump wire on the mi16 loom? Or what?

[Saveit 0]

So i got some pictures taken. I manage to find the wire, that i believe is main live, and follow it.

 

 

Firstly here is the ECU (remember mine is a left hand driven car)

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00037.JPG

 

And from the ECU it goes up behind the heater

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00038.JPG

 

And here a bunch of wires comes out with the thick live from the ECU at the top

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00041.JPG

 

I believe i managed to follow the wire out to a black plastic box in the enginecompartment. The box is located near the battery on the left chassis part and close to the left headlight. It connects to something called a "Stuerrelais" where some other wires also connects. In this box there are 3 things. The "Steuerrelais"(?), some other relay(?) and a 5 pin plug(?) where the 205 jetronic loom used to connect to by a brown plug.

I tried to read what was printed on the wires going in to the Steuerrelais and here is what i came up with:

33 (red i think), 18 (white), 76 (dont remember), 20 (thick brown - earth?), 46b (orange i think), 96 (dont remember), 2a (red i think) and one wire which i think said M (?).

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00035.JPG

 

Another picture of the connectors in the black plastic box

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00043.JPG

 

And here is a pic of the 2 read wires coming from the positive on the battery and connecting to some black connecter. Is this what you call the shunt box?

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00034.JPG

 

----

 

And here is just 2 pics of the multiplug connectors on the 405 loom and what i believe is the shunt box on the 405 loom also

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00044.JPG

 

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00045.JPG

 

 

I hope you can find out what this is? I think its a mess.

 

Thank you.

Edited January 6, 2009 by pugtorque
Image fikle sizes, 800 x 600 & 120k max please.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

The box is located near the battery on the left chassis part and close to the left headlight. It connects to something called a "Stuerrelais" where some other wires also connects. In this box there are 3 things. The "Steuerrelais"(?), some other relay(?) and a 5 pin plug(?) where the 205 jetronic loom used to connect to by a brown plug.

I tried to read what was printed on the wires going in to the Steuerrelais and here is what i came up with:

33 (red i think), 18 (white), 76 (dont remember), 20 (thick brown - earth?), 46b (orange i think), 96 (dont remember), 2a (red i think) and one wire which i think said M (?).

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00035.JPG

That's the tachymetric relay, the only wire from there you'll need imo is the wire #76 (probably white) which goes to the fuel pump. The thick brown wire should've been connected to the battery distribution block (see below).

 

And here is a pic of the 2 read wires coming from the positive on the battery and connecting to some black connecter. Is this what you call the shunt box?

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00034.JPG

On your car that is effectively the shunt box but you can either use this or look at fitting the one out of the 405 in your picture below.

 

http://www.newravio.com/wiring205/DSC00045.JPG

 

There should've been some black connectors plugged into the shunt box on the 405, one of these will be the ecu & fuel / injector relays power cables.

 

In the two brown multiplugs you need to find wire #76 (should be white) this is the fuel pump feed, The rev counter signal wire (112) from pin 1 on the coil plug, wire 2A from pin 2 on the coil plug, this is the main switched live for the coil etc.

 

Find these wires on your 205 loom, join them up & that should see the engine running when everything is fitted imo.

 

Wire #76 you've already found on your tachymetric relay plug, the coil switched feed & rev counter should be on the 205 coil on the inner wing on the engine bay.

 

Graham.

[Saveit 0]

Okay superb!

 

Can i just pull the coil switched live and the rev counter off the coil and connect those directly to the brown multiplug on the 405 loom? Or do i have to find them somewhere else on the 205 loom?

 

And what about the main live? Is that the wire that i think it is (the thick lightgreen/lightblue wire) which goes to the ECU? Can i just clip that wire and connect it to the same wire on the brown mulitplug on the 405 loom?

 

And lastly, what is this shunt box for?! Can i keep the one already in the 205, or should i replace it with the one from the 405? If i keep the one from the 205, do i have to add/change/clip something and connect it to the shunt box?

Edited January 6, 2009 by Saveit

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Can i just pull the coil switched live and the rev counter off the coil and connect those directly to the brown multiplug on the 405 loom? Or do i have to find them somewhere else on the 205 loom?

Personally I'd find the coil feed & rev counter wires on the 405 loom & join them permanently to the ones on your 205 loom rather than just plugging them into the brown plug. The connectors will be different anyway so they wouldn't join together very well imo.

 

And what about the main live? Is that the wire that i think it is (the thick lightgreen/lightblue wire) which goes to the ECU? Can i just clip that wire and connect it to the same wire on the brown mulitplug on the 405 loom?

The green wire isn't the main feed for the jetronic ecu, the main feed goes to the tachymetric relay on the jetronic loom because there isn't a direct connection to the ecu from the battery distribution block so you need to find the one on the 405 loom & connect that to which every shunt box or distribution block you use.

And lastly, what is this shunt box for?! Can i keep the one already in the 205, or should i replace it with the one from the 405? If i keep the one from the 205, do i have to add/change/clip something and connect it to the shunt box?

Its the main battery distribution block, it supplies power to the fusebox, ecu & cooling fans on the 205 's & 405's with them fitted. The connector on your battery positive lead will do the same but I'd try to use the 405 one if possible.

 

To use the 405 one, use the battery positive lead from the 405 in place of your 205's & you might have to change the wiring for the cooling fans & terminal that feeds to the fusebox from your 205 one but its so long since I saw one like you have fitted I can't honestly remember.

 

Looking at this picture of the connector fitted to your 205, what is the wire you can see leading away from the black connetor on the opposite side to the red wires? I think that is the one that leads to the tachymetric relay plug & there will be one or two more that lead to the fuse box & cooling fans from there.

 

Graham.

[Saveit 0]

Personally I'd find the coil feed & rev counter wires on the 405 loom & join them permanently to the ones on your 205 loom rather than just plugging them into the brown plug. The connectors will be different anyway so they wouldn't join together very well imo.

 

 

The green wire isn't the main feed for the jetronic ecu, the main feed goes to the tachymetric relay on the jetronic loom because there isn't a direct connection to the ecu from the battery distribution block so you need to find the one on the 405 loom & connect that to which every shunt box or distribution block you use.

 

Its the main battery distribution block, it supplies power to the fusebox, ecu & cooling fans on the 205 's & 405's with them fitted. The connector on your battery positive lead will do the same but I'd try to use the 405 one if possible.

 

To use the 405 one, use the battery positive lead from the 405 in place of your 205's & you might have to change the wiring for the cooling fans & terminal that feeds to the fusebox from your 205 one but its so long since I saw one like you have fitted I can't honestly remember.

 

Looking at this picture of the connector fitted to your 205, what is the wire you can see leading away from the black connetor on the opposite side to the red wires? I think that is the one that leads to the tachymetric relay plug & there will be one or two more that lead to the fuse box & cooling fans from there.

 

Graham.

 

I think i am very close to fully understanding this now.

 

Just have one last question. IS it possible to just pull the switched postive and the RPM wires off the coil and connecting them to the correct wires in the brown 405 plug? What i am trying to find out, is if i can use the wires which goes to the coil, or if i need to find those wires somewhere else on the 205 loom. My worries is, that those 2 wires from the coil could currently be going through the current 205 jetronic ecu. Lets say i were to use those 2 wires directly from the coil, and when i then disconnect the current jetronic ECU and hook up the new loom and ECU, those wires wouldnt work since they ran through the ECU? Or dont they run through the ECU? The switched live must be running through the ECU? The RPM meter could be going straight from the coil to the RPM meter in the dash? Hope you understand what i am saying.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

IS it possible to just pull the switched postive and the RPM wires off the coil and connecting them to the correct wires in the brown 405 plug? What i am trying to find out, is if i can use the wires which goes to the coil, or if i need to find those wires somewhere else on the 205 loom. My worries is, that those 2 wires from the coil could currently be going through the current 205 jetronic ecu.

You should be fine to do this, neither of these wires run in the jetronic ecu loom.

 

The Jetronic ecu has nothing to do with the ignition, it only does the fuelling.

 

Graham.

[Saveit 0]

So just to confirm, this is what i am going to do:

 

Wires on the 405 loom:

1. Main live: Just plug the main live wire from the multiplug directly to a constant positive. This could be the shunt box possibly.

2. Main switched live: Use the wire from the coil and connect it to the right wire in the brown multiplug.

3. RPM: Use the wire from the coil and connect it to the right wire in the brown multiplug.

4. Fuel pump: Use the white wire 76 which connects to the tachymetric relay and connect it to the right wire in the multiplug.

5. Earth: Just plug the earth wire from the multiplug directly to earth. This could possibly be the earth on the gearbox where negative on battery also goes to.

 

This must be it then, right?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

So just to confirm, this is what i am going to do:

 

Wires on the 405 loom:

1. Main live: Just plug the main live wire from the multiplug directly to a constant positive. This could be the shunt box possibly.

2. Main switched live: Use the wire from the coil and connect it to the right wire in the brown multiplug.

3. RPM: Use the wire from the coil and connect it to the right wire in the brown multiplug.

4. Fuel pump: Use the white wire 76 which connects to the tachymetric relay and connect it to the right wire in the multiplug.

5. Earth: Just plug the earth wire from the multiplug directly to earth. This could possibly be the earth on the gearbox where negative on battery also goes to.

 

This must be it then, right?

• 1. No, the main ecu live is a totally seperate wire from the brown multiplug on the 405 loom which connects to the 405 shunt box or whichever one you choose to use.
  
• 2. Yes but as said, due to the difference between the two wire terminals I@d join them seperately & not use the 405 brown multiplug. Fewer loose connections to go wrong & better to connect directly wire to wire & either crimp or solder them toegther imo.
  
• 3. Yes but as above, I'd join the wires directly to each other rather than make a bad connection due to the terminal size difference.
  
• 4. Yes but as my two replies above, better to connect it directly wire to wire & either crimp or solder them toegther imo.
  
• 5. You shouldn't need to change any earths, just connect the earth wire ring terminal on the 405 loom to the gearbox earth stud.
  

Using the whole of the 405 loom leaves you with a lot of spare unused wires which can be removed. I think you'd be better to find the wires you need & seperate these from the plugs & the ecu loom from the 405 loom & connect just teh wires needed to those in the 205, leaving the 205 sensor wires as they are now.

 

Graham.

[htice 0]

Hi Saveit,

You are exactly at the same point at engine wire swap as I am with my LHD p1 1.6.

For simplification I just did separate all the instrumentation wiring from my 405 mi16 wiring harness.

This just left me with like 5ea wires from the ECU harness to hook up - I think it is similar now to the original BX Mi16 harness.

 

The wires I have to hook up are,

Light Blue wire #2 for the ign SW

Green thick wire (Shield wire) 112 for the Tacho.

Small yellow & green for Grnd.

White wire 76 for the fuel pump.

Small yellow 74 for the check engine light (optional)

 

Then of course the black flat plug with one thick yellow and one white wire and that goes to the battery + power distribution connector.

 

If for any help I do have original Peugeot factory Wiring diagram for both p1 205 Gti and 405 Mi16 1988 & up.

Very helpful if you need to trace wires - however it does not give you exact component location.

 

I have just scanned in copy of this wiring diagram and the necessary explanation pages from the manual, but I do not know how to make them available for download here - But I could email them to you if you want.

Alo if intrested I have couple of photos of my modifyed wiring harness.

 

Have not hooked it up to the 205 harness yet, but I was thinking of hard wire it in at the tachometric rely point (in the black box)

Light Blue wire #2, the Green thick wire 112 for the thacho & White wire 76 for the fuel pump.

 

The green 112 goes from the tachometric rely -> 1.6 coil -> dash.

[Saveit 0]

You are talking about using the sensors from the 205 loom. Couldnt i use the sensors from the 405 loom?! As you can see, i am all about doing this the easiest way. This car is used for low budget racing, and it just have to run. The only sensors i need are RPM, Oilpressure, Watertemp. and how much fuel there is left in the tank. RPM is straightforward - we have already covered that one. Now, should i use the sensors for the oilpressure, watertemp. and fuel from the 205 loom or the 405 loom? It would be best if i could avoid not using both the 205 loom and the 405 loom, but its probably easier just to leave all the sensors be, and just plug the ones in from the 205 loom and tug the ones from the 405 well away.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

The sensors are the ame on the Mi16 engine as those on the 205 engine so the easiest way is to leave the original wires in place & use them imo.

 

Fewer connections & less excess wiring in the car.

 

You aren't touching any part of the wiring for the fuel guage so that won't change from how it is now on the 205 loom.

 

You only need the ecu loom from the 405 & tahst pretty self enclosed within itself, the join the few wires highlighted previously into the 205 loom for it to work.

 

Graham.

[Saveit 0]

Okay i got it all sorted now. It only took about 42 posts to get me to understand it - sorry for that

 

Thank you very much Graham, and all you others who have helped.

 

So what i am going to do first, is to take the 405 loom home, seperate the ECU wiring from the rest of the wiring, and take some pictures before i clip the wires so you can confirm whether i have done the seperation right. But i guess i also have to connect the wire for the starter to the 405 loom in the same way as the wires from the coil (rpm and switched live). Or else i wont imagine the starter motor working?

Edited January 7, 2009 by Saveit

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

If you mean the small wire to the starter solenoid you won't need to change anything on that, just use the wire from your 205 loom now.

 

If you are fitting the 405 shunt box instead of the older design currently fitted to your 205 then you can simply unbolt the current battery positive cable from the starter & alternator to fit the 405 one in its place but nothign needs doing to the solenoid wire.

 

Graham.

[Saveit 0]

Beautiful! Im ready to do this now.

[htice 0]

For my project - normal street car - I find it much easier to keep the original 205 GTi indication harness and use the Mi16 ECU harness only.

The 205 GTI p1 is just like that originally, has separate indication & ECU harness.

All the wiring for my project will be much easier by that. No need to mess with the indication harness.

Except you might have to add like few inches of wire to the small 3wire harness that goes to the temp sensors on the thermostat connecting block.

One wire for Over-temp sensor - other to the gauge-temp sensor. 3rd wire in this loom goes to the Oil temp sensor, but length is Ok there.

 

I was trying to upload ZIP file containing few scanned pages from the Peugeot factory wiring diagram,

Both 205 GTI p1 and 2row ECU 405 Mi16, plus some support pages.

See if this link here below works for the download of the ZIP file.

<a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255770/PugProject/Wiring405Mi16-205.zip"</a>

 

Else good luck with your project!

[htice 0]

Here are coupe of pictures.

This picture shows the only mi16 wires I need to connect the 205..

Batt + (big black plug)

Ign SW (light blue)

Fuel Pump (white)

Grnd (-) (yellow & green)

Tacho (thick & green)

And the optional Check Engine Light wire (Yellow)

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...t/DSC07052x.JPG

 

Hole in the 205 harness grommet to small to take the mi16 ecu harness so little grinding required to open it up a little.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...t/DSC07051x.JPG

[Saveit 0]

THank you very much htice! I am right now in the middle of trying to disassemble the 405 loom so only the necessary wires are left. I am going to use the indicator wires from the 205 loom. So i am trying to figure out which wires and connectors can be removed from the 405 loom. Its not easy though. How did you figure it out?

 

EDIT: I tried downloading the file you uploaded, and the download works fine. But sadly it says that the file is corrupted. Could you try to Zip it again and upload it perhaps?

Edited January 7, 2009 by Saveit

[htice 0]

Hmm..

My test download for the ZIP file worked OK.

Anyway..

See if this will work, Link to every single PDF page -

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...lanation_P1.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...lanation_P2.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ut_FromCAPS.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ent_List-P1.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ent_List-P2.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ent_List-P3.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ent_List-P4.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ent_List-P5.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...ent_List-P6.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...Gti_1986-up.pdf

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/6/2255...16-07up1988.pdf

[Saveit 0]

Thank you. Would it be possible for you to take some pictures of your wiring loom where you have seperated all the unnecessary wires? Or is it fitted in your car? I cant really figure out which wires and connectors i can remove although i have a wiring diagram. It seems that everything is somehow connected to the ECU.