Xsara Vts Wiring

[ablister 31]

Where should M444 run from / too? I can't see it on my autodata but if you know where it runs from then you can pin out with a multimeter to check if you have an earth there.

 

I can't find C12 on my Autodata but C12B runs from the igntion switched live (same as CC4 & C02J) via a fuse to the instrument panel MIL lamp afaik.

 

 

Graham.

 

sorry to bring this up again but M444 is the earth on the gearbox that is used for the brake pad warning light, not relelvant to the injection/ignition side

[jimbean 0]

sorry to bring this up again but M444 is the earth on the gearbox that is used for the brake pad warning light, not relelvant to the injection/ignition side

 

 

no...

 

this earh has no use with the injection/ignition

 

just the brake warning

 

ecu earths are pins 17/ 36/ 53/ 54 on ecu plug main is pin 17

[ablister 31]

sorry, can see how that could be misleading.

 

What i meant was wire M444 is part of the MM01 earth point on the gearbox but not part of the injection/ignition side ie will not stop the car from starting. The earth is still used as a main earth for other components. As said, the wire is only used for brake pad warning light on dash. In the engine wiring harness, it goes into EM01A splice and comes from both front brake pads via another splice in the main harness.

 

Was just trying to answer the question regarding the wire M444

 

ali

[TurboSam 5]

Well to resurrect this one, thanks for your reply a while back Pugtorque, all heading in the right direction now! Today I cranked for the first time and whilst all of my dash lighting was working fine and the cranking strong, there were two issues-

 

-My reverse light came on on the final click of the ignition barrel.

 

-There was no voltage to the fuel pump.

 

I check the 1200 wire from the Xsara part of the loom and that was making 12v, but checking the plug to the pump and a number of other grounds to be sure, there was no voltage. As for the reverse light I checked that was plugged into the right thing and it was. Any Ideas? I will take another look tomorrow.

 

Hi Jonathan, not sure if you have sorted you loom yet, but I'm currently converting a vts loom for a 205 and have noticed a couple of errors in your wiring list. On my loom, C12 is one of the two wires for the reversing lamp switch. You have it listed as a switched live which should explain why reversing lamps are coming on with IGN.

 

Hope this helps

[ablister 31]

maybe you have wires mixed up as the light should only come on via the switch in the gearbox? If light comes on as soon as ignition is switched on, get your multimeter out and check for 12v getting to the switch

Edited March 29, 2009 by ablister

[jtek 0]

Ah Cheers Sam, I have disconnected the wire that was going live on ignition for the moment, so the reverse lights are ok, the loom needs tidying up again anyway so I will double check the numbers and correct it. I am still tracking down an inertia switch for the VTS loom so that is slowing me down for the time being!

[TurboSam 5]

Inertia switch doesn't have to be VTS specific, the loom I'm building had it's inertia wiring cut. I used an inertia switch from a 306 with a Renault Scenic plug soldered in

[jtek 0]

Cheers Sam, I had a look at it this afternoon, I used C12 to power the fuel pump for a second and it worked fine, I cannot for the life of me track down the plug for the inertia switch however. I got a wiring diagram it seems that it is wire 120 and 120a that go to that plug, but I can't see them anywhere on my loom, does anybody have pictures of the switch and its plug?

[jtek 0]

Evening all, not really had an awful lot of time recently to work on the car due to other commitments, but this wiring is bugging me now. Having searched the loom as much as possible whilst it's on the engine I cannot find the crash switch plug at all, I am wondering if it has been bridged and covered in a previous life... I put a live to the fuel pump wire and sure enough it powered up so it is a loom issue, along with the spark. So at the moment it is dead, there is the correct power to the fuel relay pins, so the issue seems to stem from there, are there any other points worth checking? I had been concerned that the ECU hadn't been unlocked but this has since been verified. This is frustrating having a mess in the garage that is making no progress at all

[welshpug 1,621]

tried a different Relay? plentiful in the scrapyards and easy to swap to eliminate possible problems.

[jtek 0]

Yeah I will try down one of those and maybe a crank sensor as well just in case, I certainly couldn't see any power being delivered to any pins of the ECU plug so hopefully it is something a bit more simple!

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Have you got battery voltage to the double relay pin #'s 2, 8, 11 & 15?

 

If you have then its the relay switching thats missing imo.

 

Graham.

[jtek 0]

Checked today and it turns out BB2 (pin 2) wasn't connected properly so now I have power to all of the correct points, and the relay is still not working, so I guess I will track down a new one and try that, from the power going to the pins at the ECU it certainly seems as if the relay is not switching. Many Thanks Graham.

[welshpug 1,621]

plenty of cars use the same double relay, pop the bonnet of many post 96 pug or citroen and you'll find one, even the later diesels have them

[jtek 0]

Oh spot on, there is one the bay that looks mighty familiar from a 97' 1.6, maybe I will have that then! Cheers Welshpug!

[welshpug 1,621]

yes, on a recent scrappy visit I bagged half a dozen, Goliath nabbed one and his turbo engine fired straight up after a week of head scratching

[jtek 0]

And so the saga continues. I got a new fuel relay, that didn't make a change, although I can hear it clicking away when I switch the ignition. Then oli-pug popped around to have a look (cheers again mate) and we tried the ECU from his. Still the same. So I then pulled the entire loom from the car and stripped it all down to check for any obvious problem and tidy up a few connections to be sure. Refitted the whole lot, still the same. Later tonight I started playing around with a few earth points and it would seem that even when the earth points from the loom and from inside the car are removed, the relay still switches(?) although I will have to sanity check that tomorrow. When I remove the ECU and pinout from that, the only 12v power seems to be at pin 7 (relay module, logical) and also at pin 41 (MAP sensor??) going by the pinout diagram I have. The symptoms are still a lack of spark, fuel, or fuel pressure, and at this point I am reaching my wits end.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

the only 12v power seems to be at pin 7 (relay module, logical) and also at pin 41 (MAP sensor??) going by the pinout diagram I have. The symptoms are still a lack of spark, fuel, or fuel pressure, and at this point I am reaching my wits end.

From looking at the Xsara wiring on autodata, pin 7 of the double relay runs via the FIS to the ecu as a switched earth so if thats the only 12v feed you have your wiring is wrong somewhere imo.

 

You should have a main direct feed from the battery distribution (alternator terminal) to connection to pins 2, 8, 11 & 15 of the double relay.

 

There should be one ignition switched feed to pin 14 of the double relay.

 

Graham.

[jtek 0]

Sorry Graham I meant the power at the ECU pin 7, which is fed from the relay module. I have power at all of the correct relay module pins, although I was unsure whether there should be power to pin 12? This comes from the ECU, or would this only show with the relay plugged in and switching? Many Thanks.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I was unsure whether there should be power to pin 12? This comes from the ECU, or would this only show with the relay plugged in and switching? Many Thanks.

 

Looing at Autodata, ecu pin 12 is looped through the DLC (Data link connector / immobiliser) from ecu pin 13 & 42.

 

Ecu pin 42 runs to the tachometer.

 

Graham.

[jtek 0]

Just this moment I believe I have found the problem. The crash switch that on all of my diagrams was shown to be through the fuel pump wire (1200) which was never actually there was really between pins 7 on the relay and 7 on the ecu, which I was yet to see. This had been chopped right down on the loom to the point of almost being out of sight, so only when I pulled the whole lot apart after a resistance check did i find the issue. So putting the loom back together now and I will no doubt be back tomorrow with a new query Ah and I pin 12 wrong it was actually 13 that I was unsure about Thanks for looking though Graham!

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

No worries, hopefully now you've found the remains of the wire that went to the IFS with them joined up it'll work without any more problems.

 

Graham.