Diesel Not Starting

[jimistdt 1]

Went to start the car up this morning as I normal I let it idle for a minute or two before I set off on these colder mornings. As it was running I topped up the radiator as it has a small leak, its from the metal pipe, and as I did that I was going to reconnect the discharge pipe on the vacuum pump, at this point i turned the engine off as my hands were near the vacuum pump belt.

 

So, upshot is...I tried to restart the engine, waited for the glow plugs light to go off turned her over, normally at this point she fires up first time, this time it turned over but didn't fire up, I waited a couple of seconds, turned it over again, this time she started, idled erratically for no more than two seconds and stopped, repeated this another two times and the same thing happened, next time it just turned and turned and didnt catch.

 

 

Quick flick through the Haynes points to the Injection pump stop solenoid, I checked the wires and they seem to make contact, no broken wires or what have you.

 

 

So is this my best bet? Or is there something else I should be looking at?

 

 

This is my Daily and I need her on the road, I had to drive an Astra to work this morning and suddenly my commute became a chore.

 

 

Please help.

Edited October 18, 2008 by Pugnut

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

You need to see if the solenoid is getting 12v, if not its a good chance that's at fault but if it is then crack one of the pipes to the injectors off at the injector end & see if fuel is getting through when you crank it over.

 

The stop solenoid is fed from the glow plug relay iirc so you could try putting 12v directly to it from the battery with it switched off & see if you can hear it click open. You could try this while you crank it & see if it runs ok then but you need a heavy guage wire or it'll just over heat & melt imo.

 

That could point to the glow plug relay as another possible fault.

 

Graham.

[jimistdt 1]

Thanks G, I've ordered myself a Solenoid Ill try that tonight.

 

 

Cheers mate.

[jimistdt 1]

Ever so slightly p!ssed off now.

 

 

I have changed the stop solenoid for another one. Still cant get it to start.

 

I unbolted the injector slightly and there is a flow of fuel there.

 

The only thing I haven't done is check the heater plug relay. (How do you remove the wash bottle?)

 

Q. If it is the heater plug relay will I be able to bump start it?

 

 

One good thing has come out of it at least, I'm making good use of the Halogen Lights I bought lol.

 

Forum, its over to you...

[jimistdt 1]

OK, next course of action is Timing Belt.

 

I can appreciate that there aint many 'Dervers' on here, so can anyone recommend a site that might be able to help?

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

The glow plug relay is bolted to the nearside inner wing in the engine bay, behind the battery so the washer bottle doesn't need to be moved.

 

If its the heater plug relay then you can still start the car by cranking but it'll take longer to catch & be a bit smokey for the first 10 seconds or so until the cylinder temperatures level out.

 

Or you can still power them by running a decent jump lead from the battery positive to a glow plug for ten seconds 7 then try cranking it again.

 

Why do you say next course of action is the cambelt?

 

Graham.

[jimistdt 1]

The glow plug relay is bolted to the nearside inner wing in the engine bay, behind the battery so the washer bottle doesn't need to be moved.

 

If its the heater plug relay then you can still start the car by cranking but it'll take longer to catch & be a bit smokey for the first 10 seconds or so until the cylinder temperatures level out.

 

Or you can still power them by running a decent jump lead from the battery positive to a glow plug for ten seconds 7 then try cranking it again.

 

Why do you say next course of action is the cambelt?

 

Graham.

 

Hello Graham,

 

Yes I've found the heater plug relay now, thanks. it seems to be in order, I bridged the negative terminal on the battery to the heater plug with a test lamp which came on when i turned the ignition.

 

I am also happy that the solenoid is working as that made a loud clcking noise when I bridged the solenoid and the positive battery terminal.

 

I now need a new fuel filter and I have bought some 8mm fuel pipe to replace whats there to see if thats letting air in, but I havent got 'round to that yet.

 

I came up with the timing belt theory after reading on the internet that if the belt had slipped then it wouldn't start. Running out of ideas TBH.

 

Cheers

Edited October 18, 2008 by jimistdt

[jimistdt 1]

Can I bump this topic, I've got a day off work tomorrow to get it sorted. Any ideas at all will be considered. I've got a feeling its something and nothing, but you never know. At least I don't anyhoo.

[Lan 24 1 Cars]

have you tried pumping that button of top of the fuel filter rapidly for about 20 secs and then attempting to start it??

[jimistdt 1]

have you tried pumping that button of top of the fuel filter rapidly for about 20 secs and then attempting to start it??

 

Cheers Lan,

 

 

Yes, I tried that last night, I managed to get it to run for a second or two the it just died again.

[Lan 24 1 Cars]

Cheers Lan,

 

 

Yes, I tried that last night, I managed to get it to run for a second or two the it just died again.

 

im guessing youve got a air leak somewhere then, mines was like this when it had one but. it also had some fuel pump wiring problems which caused it to start and then cut out, have you checked all the pumps wiring??

[jimistdt 1]

Im going to take the fuel filter off tomorrow and have a good look at that, my pipes are looking a bit tired, so I have bought a couple of metres of tubing.

 

I called down halfords for a new filter this morning, but they have got three very different ones listed for my model

 

Which pipes did you end up replacing, can you remember where it was routed?

 

 

I have checked the visible wires and they seem to all be connected but I may find a few more with the pump out?

[Lan 24 1 Cars]

Im going to take the fuel filter off tomorrow and have a good look at that, my pipes are looking a bit tired, so I have bought a couple of metres of tubing.

 

I called down halfords for a new filter this morning, but they have got three very different ones listed for my model

 

Which pipes did you end up replacing, can you remember where it was routed?

 

 

I have checked the visible wires and they seem to all be connected but I may find a few more with the pump out?

 

well in particular this white wire try unplugging that and seeing if it makes any difference the car wont start but try to see if it sounds the same when turning over (youll find if its not getting fuel it makes a slightly different noise) as you can see our wire was damaged so we had to replace it, this particular wire turns on the pump to give the engine fuel

 

[jimistdt 1]

Cheer Lan, Appreciate the time and effort taken with that.

[Lan 24 1 Cars]

Cheer Lan, Appreciate the time and effort taken with that.

 

sorry i couldnt be of more help, as you probs worked out diesels can be a right pain in the a*** when not starting

[jimistdt 1]

sorry i couldnt be of more help, as you probs worked out diesels can be a right pain in the a*** when not starting

 

 

Never had any trouble with this one before, but its fair stressing me out this at the moment. Hopefully in daylight tomorrow I can make giant strides.

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Jimi, the fuel filter should be the lucas / Roto diesel one. I might have the box which I got one for mine in when it still had the original filter like yours has but from looking on service box the oe number is 1901.43 afaik.

 

From you saying it started for a few seconds when you primed the fuel system the perished pipes do sound very likely remembering exactly how quickly mine deteriorated when the supply pipe behind the engine went last year & stumped me on what was wrong for a while. Also ties in with you mentioning it's felt down on power just recently.

 

So much so that I did the valve clearances just as an extra safety measure because XUD7's have a nasty tendency of closing up suddenly when they start to get on in miles or age. Possibly something else for you to check but not a problem to fix imo.

 

The fuel supply hose runs from the fuel heater which is botled to the back of the block as part of the main hose union body up to the metal pipe which runs alongthe top of the bulkhead alongside the brake pipes iirc but there is also a small piece of hose which loops fromthe main metal under body supply pipe to the heater body. Not hard to replace but fiddly as you are woirking underneath th car in limited space.

 

Two metres of fuel hose (8mm iirc) should fix it if it is the hose.

 

Graham.

[jimistdt 1]

Thanks for that Graham Looking forward to wriggling about under the car tomorrow.

 

I'm hoping we're on the right lines with the pipes, I think between us we have ruled out a lot of the other stuff.

 

A quick question though, do I need some clips to keep the pipes in place or will they be tight enough fit that they will stay there of their own accord?

 

Thanks for all your help peeps.

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

I've managed to re-use the original clips but a couple of proper fuel pipe clips wouldn't go a miss to make it easier for you.

 

IIRC 8mm pipe is a tight fit onto the fuel pipe along the bulkhead but OK onto the fuel heater but it might be worth getting a rough measurement of the bulkhead pipe incase I've remembered it wrongly & you need 10mm.

 

Graham.

[jimistdt 1]

Get this;

 

I changed my fuel filter this morning for a new one, primed it, it didn't start. I called a mechanic mate of mine who came out, had a look at it, tried to start it, said is sounds like its drawing air, he tried it again and he got the bugger going. Fantastic, eh? Not quite.

 

He agreed that the bit of flexi going from the solid fuel line along the bulkhead into the filter looked perished, so i changed that, primed the pump for AGES, and I haven't been able to start it since.

 

Looks like I have found my problem, but my battery is now dead and I'm waiting for it to charge up before trying it again.

 

 

So near yet so far.....

[Lan 24 1 Cars]

Get this;

 

I changed my fuel filter this morning for a new one, primed it, it didn't start. I called a mechanic mate of mine who came out, had a look at it, tried to start it, said is sounds like its drawing air, he tried it again and he got the bugger going. Fantastic, eh? Not quite.

 

He agreed that the bit of flexi going from the solid fuel line along the bulkhead into the filter looked perished, so i changed that, primed the pump for AGES, and I haven't been able to start it since.

 

Looks like I have found my problem, but my battery is now dead and I'm waiting for it to charge up before trying it again.

 

 

So near yet so far.....

 

aye a couple of attempted starts and the battery goes as flat as a pancake on these engines

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Nice one Jimi, its shocking how a simple air leak in the fuel supply can completely stop a diesel engine like this.

 

One benefit of the GTi is if the hoses were perished to the same extent you'd have a leak you could see but could be a serius health / fire hazard.

 

Graham.

[jimistdt 1]

I'm not 100% I have got it going again yet. Logic suggests it should be fine, but as I haven't had it running since I can't be sure. I will try it again in the morning with the battery charged again.

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

TBH if that section of fuel pipe is perished then the rest down the back of the engine will be as bad if not worse so I'd replace it all now if I were you to save it doing the same again in the none to distant future.

 

Graham.

[jimistdt 1]

Thats a fair comment G, it's bound to come and bite me sooner or later.