16v205 9 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Has it now been on the rolling road? Yeah it was ran yesterday, ive got a few more pics to put up first but I just ran out of time so ended up working silly hours on the car to get it ready and not taking many pics towards the end. Ill pop them on this afternoon and post a rr graph tonight Rich Edited June 5, 2008 by 16v205 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doof 11 Posted June 5, 2008 Brilliant thread. Clear and easy to follow write-up and the pics are excellent. I dream of driving my 2.2, and it would be nice at a meet for us meat heads with overbores (upped displacement engines) to compare motors. There are a few now and I like the fact that they're all slightly different. Great . Thats a good idea, i'd be up for meeting up when my engines done. Could be an RR day, pub lunch or track day... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 5, 2008 Brilliant thread. Clear and easy to follow write-up and the pics are excellent. I dream of driving my 2.2, and it would be nice at a meet for us meat heads with overbores (upped displacement engines) to compare motors. There are a few now and I like the fact that they're all slightly different. Great . Yeha it'd be good to catch up and see a few more cars like this - plus I can copy any good ideas you guys have with regards to cooling issues and similar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 5, 2008 Been a few days since ive been able to update this. Ive not been able to take as many pics as id have liked due to nearly everything causing greif with this build over the last week An Mi16 crank that Anthony gave me. It had a little surface rust on it when Ant donated it to the cause so we done as you'd expect, thats right, we went to Tesco's and bought a large amount of vinegar and soaked the crank overnight in black bags in the bath lol. A little random but it worked ok though as it was a non-abrasive way of removing the surface rust and the crank only needed 0.3mm grind on both mains and big-ends for it to be usable again. The pic is after the cranks been ground and nitrided. Mocal oil cooler and thermostat take-off. This was to become a nighmare, if I knew what a pain in the arse it was to become it would have stayed in the box. In the pic are also a set of longman shells 0.3 oversize to match the crank. Grooved top mains bearings in place New Arp Conrod bolts - They were all measured, torqued up to 35lb/ft several times in a old con rod held in the vice and measured again to make sure none had stretched. They were then degreased and fitted in the gti-6 rods, the nuts were thread locked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Pistons are installed and I was nervious that it may not be right but all was fine they came to 0 deck height, same as a standard gti-6. The dome in the middle protrudes into the chamber a bit to increase compression Gti-6 bottom end with rods and crank fitted. You can see the bolts in the mains bolts to hold the windage in place. Windage tray fitted Couple of pics of the Oil pump, chain, guard and return all fitted. This all had to come off again to re-torque the mains bolts as after double checking we found id done them up to lightly the first time round. Edited June 5, 2008 by 16v205 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) 88mm Cometic headgasket, I tried the original MLS 306 gasket inplace first as sometimes theres enough slack to allow a overbore to fit but it didnt, there was 0.5mm of fire ring hanging into the combustion chamber. The cometic gasket was a perfect fit. Edited June 5, 2008 by 16v205 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 5, 2008 The cams are setup with lift @ tdc method, with the head off I had already found the pistons atdc and marked it on the flywheel end. I measured the cam lift on the back of the tappets which is a little awkward as theres not much room. If you do use a dti make sure you always have a rounded end screwed into it or else you'll never get a accurate reading. It still took hours before I was happy with the timing, even with the verniers that you can pin. The verniers are very sticky so I used a little copper slip on the inside of them to make smaller movements more accurate and stop the jolting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 5, 2008 Saturday morning I had off from the engine as Erica had bought me a Zorb ride thingy at christmas so we headed off 70 miles to Oxford to have a go, then found once we got there they had moved to Stow so drove 50miles across country until we found it in the afternoon. Got to admit it was great fun, never felt gforce like it. So punishment for making me giggle like a girl in earshot of other people and taking me away from my engine when im rushing to build it here's her pic so you can throw old fruit at her at car shows. She'll appreciate that im sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 5, 2008 Back to building engines Ant popped up saturday evening and helped me sunday again, we got a fair bit done but most of it was fiddly bits finishing off the engine and similar. Billet steel flywheel weighs just 3.9kg. Completed engine and gearbox, the exhaust manifold has been wrapped in heat proof stuff to keep the heat away from the wiring loom and hose's. Mocal takeoff is fitted with an oil cooler bolt I had to cut and weld a few years ago. Ant said you can get the required length ones from pug for a few pounds, wish I knew that before There wasnt enough time to start cleaning and tarting up the engine bay. I did give it a quick jetwash when I was washing the swarf out the head a few days ago and it got rid of most the thick oily bits. Still no-ones going to see that bit once the bonnets shut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swordfish210 20 Posted June 5, 2008 Nice build, i love seing engines built properly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 5, 2008 Nice build, i love seing engines built properly Thankyou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 6, 2008 Ran out of pictures now as tuesday was hectic getting the car ready. It was pouring rain all day and I really wasnt looking forward to working on it. Fortunatly I noticed a split on the fuel line going to the fuel filter. This meant the engine had to come out again as it would be faster to fix with it out the way. Engine went back in a few hours later this just left a big list of things to finish like making brackets for the oil cooler and fuel pressure reg, extending the lower fork 6mm for a better fit, driveshafts, hoses, wiring loom, gear linkages all had to be made or fitted. Back on its wheels this is what my car looked like at 9pm and we still hadn't attempted to start it. Fitted new battery terminals as my brother had borrowed them for his car, filled it with fluids and we tried to start it. Grabbed my Dad to give us a hand and after a few attempts it fired right up. Took it up and down the road and we could hear a weird pulsing sound, the injectors were leaking past the seals and allowing unmetered air to be drawn into the inlet manifold. So Midnight came and I fitted a spare set of O-rings and all seemed ok. Then the Oil cooler decided it wanted to spit oil everywhere. So off came the throttle bodies so we could get to the thermostat takeoff and remount it with a new seal. This appeared to fix leak so went to bed at 2.30am 6am and im back up to take the car for mapping and noticed a big fluid puddle appearing under the car whilst its running, the bloody oil cooler is leaking again. This time its the rubber 0-rings that the braded hose's thread onto. Theres no groove for the ring to sit into so when they tighten down they just spread out and leak everywhere. So throttle bodies off again and the O-rings swapped for a pair of copper washers and all was fine. Thankfully the 170 miles to Emerald was trouble free. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 7, 2008 Back again, work seems to keep getting in the way of having fun Results are in and im well pleased: 223 BHP and 190 LBFT all done before 6900 rpm. We played a fair bit with trumpet lengths. The engine was making 230bhp at 7150rpm, 174 lbft and there was no sign of the rpm peaking on 90mm trumpets. That’s not what I wanted, I didn’t want to have a stressed high revving engine to make power so we started testing trumpet length. Going for a mid length on the extensions it made the torque graph do a complete opposite to what it looks now. Lowering the torque in all places and the peaks turned into valleys of missing power. Extending the 2 middle trumpets made it smooth the peaks but lowered torque at all points. The graph does have some spikes in it that’s for sure but each spike is effectively free power due to the tuned length, the base of each spike is what the torque graph looks like when we get a smooth configuration. At no point is the torque lower anywhere like this than any other trumpet length we tried. The car flies now, it picks up revs so fast you have to keep your hand on the gear stick ready to select the next gear and you really don’t notice the apparent peaks and dips across the graph, it just pulls through them. And best of all it does around 34mpg on a mixed run. I filled the tank 60 miles away from home, drove to emerald, had it mapped, drove the 170 miles back, drove it round a bit that night and I still have a bit of fuel vapour left in the tank with 403 miles on the clock. 343 miles since I last filled up Little video Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 7, 2008 A few more pics, the slam panel is coming off soon. Its only there because of the electric distribution point. Also the brake servo needs a few washers underneath it to space it over the cam belt cover. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swordfish210 20 Posted June 7, 2008 very nice, are you pleased with the results? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 189 Posted June 8, 2008 So what trumpet/spacer set up did you settle on? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Super Josh 4 Posted June 8, 2008 Very nice result Rich, that should pull like the proverbial train I would be interested to see the graph from the previous build overlayed on this one, is that something that you have thought of doing? Josh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 9, 2008 So what trumpet/spacer set up did you settle on? Im using 90mm trumpets and most likely a similar length of spacer. We changed them so frequently that I lost count of what size was on but ill pop a rule across from the bodies to the trumpet, get a measurement and pm you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 9, 2008 Very nice result Rich, that should pull like the proverbial train I would be interested to see the graph from the previous build overlayed on this one, is that something that you have thought of doing? Josh I hadnt thought of that but i'll see what I can do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 9, 2008 Right Had a go and it looks a little scrappy but should be accurate enough. I had to remove the AFR from the old graph as the chart axis was completely out but looking as a rough comparison the new engines awesome even if I say so myself Im mostly 30bhp and 30lbft more across the whole rev range compared to my old car. Rich Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James_m 0 Posted June 9, 2008 Rolling road video link does'nt seem to work Seems like a good result! Looks a fair bit stronger than the Gti6! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henry 1.9GTi 36 Posted June 9, 2008 the old engine aint that shabby either! Love the fact it peaks at 6660 and still makes 220+ bhp, good job. Maybe some more lumpy bump sticks would improve peak power and not affect the rest too much just shift it up 500rpm or so? great result. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
16v205 9 Posted June 9, 2008 the old engine aint that shabby either! Love the fact it peaks at 6660 and still makes 220+ bhp, good job. Maybe some more lumpy bump sticks would improve peak power and not affect the rest too much just shift it up 500rpm or so? great result. Thank you If I get bored of not tinkering with it I may retard the inlet 4 deg, that should give another 400rpm or so at top end. Its a little advanced at the moment but the intention was not to have to really rev the engine to get any power out of it, dont like cammy engines ad dont want to wear it out quickly either Hopefully the video may work now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamieTonks 1 Posted June 10, 2008 rik. well done bud. well please for you. when am i popping round for a spin then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huckleberry 0 Posted June 12, 2008 Very nice read! Hope you'll enjoy the engine for a long time. Reading the forum it seems the gti-6 engine is the way to go nowadays. No-one wants a mi16 anymore. I can't wait for my gti-6 engine to be in the car, it won't have your 220+ bhp but the 167 is already a big step forward from the 110 my 8v probably has left in it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
