[Project] Starting My Xu5T Build

[sensualt101 31 1 Cars]

Glad you enjoyed the read. Nothing really more to report at the moment, I have got a Xsara VTS steering rack and Saxo electric power steering setup to fit to it when I get chance, but my laser green is currently in the garage undergoing major surgery so it won't be for a bit yet.

 

Check out the link in my signature for who does the wheels.

thanks tom i guess i will have to find some sl299's to modify first then lol! and also thanks for replying to my thread too.

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

So time for a long awaited update.

The little red turbo has been back on the road a month or so now, I've used it a few times plus a run down to the East Midlands meet one night.

With Curborough looming I decided to get on with fitting the Xsara VTS rack I have been threatening to do for the last 18 months. A bit of lateral thinking, a 205 non power lower column and a Xsara VTS lower column have been combined to make just the thing needed to fit the rack without butchering the bulkhead grommet. Others have got away with using the 205 non power column, but clearance is already tight in that area on my car due to the turbo also being in that space.

My Saxo electric PAS pump is going to mount on the bulkhead in the corner behind the battery, the bracket it comes with can be modified quite easily to suit.

I've also had some nice pipes made up from pump to rack, I am hoping it will be quite neat when done. The subframe is off the car and the rack swapped over, tonight I hope to get it back on and then I can sort the length my pipes need to be and get the end swaged on the high pressure one.

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

So I should write a bit more here. The last couple of months on the little red turbo 205 have been slow progress but a few (eventual) successes. If you read back in the previous few pages of this thread you will see I have been threatening to fit the Xsara VTS power steering and 106 PAS pump set up for some time now. In the end I have got it done but not without major hassle along the way. From the previous post above I got all the main components fitted, the rack in the usual place, and the pump on the NS chassis leg near the bulkhead. I then had some pipes made to my patterns by Carlton Hydraulics in Rotherham who as usual did a superb job. I had the pipes both running along parallel with the rack body before turning uphill behind the gearbox to lead to the pump unit. With all this piped and wired up the moment of truth arrived. The pump ran and made the steering work, but it didn't sound good and I wasn't confident how long it would last. Lo and behold I was proved right about 1/2hr after fitting it as it packed in on me. As I'd been flat out on it trying to get it ready for the PSCUK Curborough outing I wasn't best pleased, especially as it packed in at about 5pm the night before. A bit of frantic Ebaying found one more or less en route to Curborough, so I picked this up on the way and had a not very enjoyable couple of hours fitting it when I got the car there on the trailer. After all this debacle the new to me pump lasted 5 minutes before setting itself on fire. To say I was unimpressed was an understatement. In the end the rain was so bad that I couldn't put much power on the floor anyway, and handbrake manoeuvers were the order of the day to make slow but spectacular progress around the circuit with no power steering and a 2.4 turn rack. On returning home the car got left for a couple of weeks, to be honest I was cheesed off with it to put it lightly. With the return of some enthusiasm I first of all stripped the original pump. This turned out to be full of what looked like copper grease, I think this was possibly the result of a leaking cam cover on the TU engined 106/Saxo it came from, mixed with heavy wear to the commutator. In addition one of the brushes had worn down and then the power had blown the carrier plate to bits. The second pump once removed from the car was instead full of fine silt, on this one the wiring had suffered heat damage from a high resistance bend in the main cable. I am sure you know what is coming next, yes I made a good one out of the two. With this done power steering was restored and finally I am happy I started doing it. In actual fact it is taking quite a lot of getting used to, but with my eccentric mounts set to max castor, and the quick rack, my word it doesn't half turn in well now. To begin with I experimented with some toe out, but with the torque and plate diff I found it dragging me all over the road. Back to a shade of toe in and all is back to usual in the stability department. With the PAS demon finally put to bed it was time for the annual Hope motor show. This is a great little local event, a well organised car show with a couple of hundred cars on show, with many hundreds more examples of interesting metal in the car park. I had months previously applied for a stand on behalf of the Yorkshire group, and was disappointed to be told that it was restricted to pre 1984 cars. I was even more disappointed to see on my arrival that there were many other comparable motor clubs displaying cars, a VW Golf club and Ford RS club to name two. Anyway luckily all was not lost and managed to acquire a spare entry ticket for the main show itself, so the little red car managed to make its way into the display.

 

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

I was also pretty pleased that the car was looking mainly pretty good, and seemed to be getting some nice attention from the crowds. I am sure everyone is the same but I am always very critical of my own cars, I suppose just because I know where every last imperfection is. However seeing it at the Hope Show made me fall back in love with it a bit, so I then started another bit of a push to improve its looks.

The main thing letting it down was the passengers door. I had painted half of the door myself in a rush before the PSOOC as was Euro trip in 2008. To say it was not a great job to begin with would be fair, so 4 years later and the cellulose was not looking great, the colour match wasn't great, and the filler work also wasn't great. As I also mentioned in earlier installments, I had been prepping another door, so finally I got on with it and got it swapped over the week before Pugfest. With this done and a polish the car was looking pretty good and so off we went down to Prescott, to enjoy a cracking weekend, the tipped rain stayed away so we had a good weekend with my old man's motorhome on site to top it off, patio heater for when it got cold at night anyone?!

 

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

This year I decided not to bother with the hillclimb, I have been there and done it, and with the size of the queues it looks like I was probably right. However one new thing I tried was the famous Kev the dent man. With the car looking better than it has for some time, it had two especially annoying dents right on the curve of the tailgate immediately above the slatted panel. One was there when I got the car, the other was added by a mates then girlfriend (now his wife) when she opened the door of my Audi bang into the 205 tailgate. I was livid at the time but managed to bite my tongue. Anyway because of the location these two dents really drew your eye to them, to the point where I had been considering a replacement panel and some more spraying.

Over to Kev and for the best £60 I have ever spent, he got out both the tailgate dents, about 4 in the one rear quarter, and one small pin dent above the drivers B pillar on the edge of the roof. All I can say is that if you are thinking about it, DO IT. The tailgate dents I can look where they were and not be able to see any sign of one, and the faintest of faint sign of another, but I am talking looking across the panel from very close range, and moving your head to see the reflections in the panel to be able to see anything at all. Well worth the money and highly recommended from myself.

So that is more or less up to date, I have an oil leak to look at, and I think the head is going to have to come off for valve guides over the winter, as it has started to smoke badly on overrun, especially if it has been parked for a little while after a run and then you set off again.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Nice read that Tom.

 

Intrigued by the contents of PAS pump number one. As you know, on the Saxo and possibly the 106 donor cars, the pump is factory sited low right as you face the engine on a cross member, so silt getting in there I can understand, but not necessarily oil caused by a possibly leaking cam cover. I guess the crud came from somewhere though. Nice work creating one good pump.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Quite an update Tom - Nice one.

 

Any chance of a few pictures / more detail on the mounting of the pump, as I'm toying with doing this conversion.

 

 

Keep up the great work!

 

Mad.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Pics also available of my pump mounted on the battery tray in my Sarty Evo II thread.

 

Fantastic steering conversion for sure. I can recommend it too.

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

I've only really got one picture of when I was installing the pump itself, yes it looks all crusty in the photo as it was just in mock up stage, I did remove and clean and paint it all before it went in to stay.

 

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

The bracket is the OE one that came with the pump, but with quite a bit of un needed rubbish chopped off to make it as compact as possible whilst still being up to the job. You can see that the right hand of the strap bolts in the photo goes through the edge of the chassis leg. At the back I used 2 of the existing holes to bolt through the bulkhead, I made some nylon spacers about 20mm to pack the bracket off the bulkhead to make it sit nicely. On the other side of the bulkhead I used a bit of 30x3 stainless bar and welded a pair of bolts to it so they are captive, so when fitting the bracket it was just a case of dropping the spacers on and doing up a pair of nuts. Things to note, the threaded port with a white "p" is the pressure port, this is the only one with a threaded union. The other two of which you can see one are just push on fit hose with jubillee clips. You can also see if you look carefully one of the bolts that hold the assembly together, undo these 4 and you can clock the motor round 180 degrees to get the wiring to come out of the front of the pump. There does seem to be a couple of slightly different types.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Defo the best place for the pump IMO!

Can't remember which header tank you used Tom but I had to use an early style white/round tank, it wouldn't fit nicely with the later black/square tank.

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

Mine is a Ph 1.5 car anyway so has the white rounded type header tank.

 

So on an unrelated note, the other night on the way to the South Yorks meet I had a little play with a chap in an "11" plate M3. I was quite suprised to find he couldn't shift me, and he seemed to be trying as well. I think he was possibly a bit put out that the red G reg 205 was still attached to his fancy M3. I was suprised to be honest so did a little maths, M3 414bhp 295 ftlb 1680kg, 205 204bhp 211ftlb guesstimate 875kg. Power to weight M3 246bhp/ton 205 233bhp/ton. Torque to weight, which is one you rarely see mentioned, but to me has a massive effect on how the car feels, M3 175 ftlb/ton, 205 241 ftlb/ton.

 

So what is my point, really that these little cars we have are in the real world a lot faster than we give them credit for.

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

So a small update;

 

After having fitted the power steering rack the car was much improved, but a couple of other things have cropped up.

 

First off was the breather pipe off the cam cover. The boost pipe passes very close to this and the net result has been the hard pipe wearing a hole in the rubber pipe. This has happened a few times since I built the car, each time I have just cut back the pipe and shoved it on! However a few goes at this and the pipe was looking more like a bow string, so I ordered a new silicone one from BBM. To stop the same thing happening I have modified the hard boost pipe into a slight "s" shape which now comfortably clears the cam cover outlet.

Next up was the boost pipe off the turbo. When I built it I did have the standard 406 outlet pipe, this is quite a well thought out thing as it has an internal step which sits nicely up against the turbo outlet, also it has a metal ring around the outside to reinforce and also protect against heat. However the one I had was split so I used a short length of straight 2" silicone hose. Now this has not proved immensely reliable, and has blown off 2 or 3 times in the past, on a recent trip out it blew off again on the way home, so I got hold of a new OE Peugeot hose and have fitted that.

 

So with the pipework jobs done I turned my attention to the rear dampers, I had been running Gaz GHA rears which have been performing OK, but were not well matched to my 23mm torsion bars. A few months ago I bought some Gr A Bilstein yellow rears so after them adorning the top of my roll cab for a while I fitted these.

 

Out on the road and I am well pleased with the handling, it is now finally starting to approach where I want the car to be. Yes it is quite hard and not the most comfortable thing in the world, but it doesn't half corner and change direction now.

However with every silver lining comes a cloud, and this cloud proved to be a poorly turbo. Evidently driving it home with the boost pipe off has taken its toll and a measly 0.5 bar was all that I could get the turbo to produce, even with the actuator hose pulled off. Getting back home and with the inlet pipe removed there is a fair bit of play in the turbo shaft, doing some research and speaking to a turbo repair place and it seems that running without the outlet pipe allows the turbo to overspeed and potentially damage itself, which is what looks like has happened here.

Bit pissed off with it as I just had the handling sorted, but hey ho. The turbo is going to have to come off for a repair, and the engine has been smoking a bit which I am fairly sure is down to worn valve guides, so it looks like the head is also coming off at the same time for guides. I had optimistically taxed it for 6 months at the start of September so that will be getting cashed in sooner rather than later

[TT205 42]

I'm sure someone of your talents could have that up and running again in a few evenings Tom?

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

I am sure you are right, but I have to say I've lost heart with it at the moment, it has been a year where I've hadly used it but seem to have done nothing but spend time effort and money on it. But onwards and upwards, it has needed the guides doing for 18 months or so now, and I think once they are done, and the turbo rebuilt, I am going to go and see someone to map it properly. It is still running my own attempt which is certainly safe enough as the pistons are still intact, but I am sure there is more power to be had out of it at the top end, it would be nice to see what it really is capable of with someone with more experience on the laptop and rolling road. The trouble is that brief sentence equates to about £1000 of spending!

Rough plan is to get the turbo and head done and then put it away for the winter months I think.

[TT205 42]

£1000 !!! that sounds steep

 

When I used Wayne Schofield (Chipwizards - Milnrow) and was charged ?£450 for a half day everyone said that sounded steep (bloody good map though and that was programming in Hex for a Marelli 8P)

 

There is Daytuner up in Harrogate too http://www.daytuner.co.uk/ who also do a lot of bikes bike engined kit cars etc etc

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

I was meaning £1000 for turbo rebuild, new guides and head gasket, and the map! Still, a bit at a time...

[wracing 19]

Turbo Technics do a good fixed price repair.

 

James

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

I feel your pain gaffer,my white ones been layed up for nearly 2 years now! just lost interest really

Edited September 13, 2012 by allanallen

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Sorry to hear this, but in all fairness you have given it some hammer when you have been out in it! I'd blame it on M@tt anyway when he drove it to Pugfest...

 

Turbo sounds expensive, but is this an opportunity to go to a TT manifold and a bigger turbo if you are going to get it mapped up?

 

It is really depressing when something happens /develops and very easy to just park it up in an automotive sulk. I have been very close to that with my trivial rust, but I was out in it today and I loved it

 

Stay strong brother!

[1 FAT PUG 39]

im takin mine to this lad as he has pretty good reports http://www.rdt.tv/

 

*forgot link haha*

Edited September 18, 2012 by 1 FAT PUG

[alexcrosse 124]

How necessary do you think those undercrown squirters are given the boost you're running?

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

Difficult to know, but they cost me essentially nothing to do so I'd probably do them again on another engine. Remember that when I built it, it was a very much try-it-and-see. The Mi16 engines run an undercrown squirter as standard.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

I just googled 'squirter', not at all what I expected.......

[welshpug 1,622]

the XU7 which used the same part number rod as the XU5, but obviously slightly revised, had an oil squirter hole.

[Reebmit 51 4 Cars]

Read many times before but still enjoy this one Tom, woke up very early today, made a brew then read from start to finish.... very similar to a build I'm on at mo....still collecting parts... will update my build thread when I'm back on build ☺

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

Well that was an epic task.

I've just been through and updated all the photos in this thread (all 28 pages ) to make them work again. It has been too much of a journey to let it be ruined by the ar$£ holes at Photobucket. I just hope Flickr doesn't pull a similar stunt.....

I've done my best to link the pics into the right places but I'm sure some aren't 100% as I originally intended.

Anyway, with that done, it seems its about time for an update so watch this space.

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

So fast forward nearly 5 years from this car being on the road. I put it away and forgot about it more or less. At the time there had been a bad run of things failing and I'd lost the love. It still ran but made very little boost, and smoked a lot on overrun.

 

In the meantime I'd kept myself busy with various other cars and hadn't missed the turbo all that much. However, the main thing that gave me some motivation was Calvin due to get married, with a driving stag weekend away round Wales planned. This had to be turbo time once more.

 

End of February, took the inlet off but otherwise as it was.

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

Head removed and off to the machine shop. About the only thing I hadn't done when I built it was new guides. It certainly needed them now.

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

Turbo removed and sent away. It wouldn't make any boost and I'd tried (or thought I had) everything. More on this later!

Anyway found a guy locally who rebuilt it for a very good price, £180 I think, and turned it round in 2 days.

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

Although the car had been away out of sight and mind, I had been collecting a few tasty bits for it.

GAZ Gold legs

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

Dan Howells old AP 4 pots

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

Sorted out some rose jointed lower arms

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

Fitted drop pins and test fit joints to uprights

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

Test fit brakes into a 1900 wheel. They are 295mm discs but fit with lots of room to spare.

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

Ready for the car!

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr

 

I also decided whilst the turbo was away to open out the exhaust manifold ports, the manifold is quite small as standard to keep gas flow up I guess.

Untitled by Tom Fenton, on Flickr