Gti-6 Conversion

[taylorspug 7]

I can see totally what Maxi is getting at, as its one of the major issues im having at the moment with thuis type of work. The problem with forums is phrases like "it goes straight in", "5 minutes work", "you can do it for X amount" get thrown around alot of the time. So when someone asks how much to do a conversion, people put up a price, which may or may not be what it actually cost for them to do.

 

Heres the good bit, people then come to me (and others on here im sure), and expect the conversion to be done for somewhere near that price. They expect me to do what adds up to nearly a week and a halfs work for about £50 profit. They dont see that this is what earns earns me a living, plus i have overheads etc, and the idea is im a specialist, so they are paying for a quality product, not something lashed together on a driveway! Its more a problem with unrealistic customers than anything else, the good ones start telling ME how long the work should take, how much it costs, or a combination of the phrases listed above. Unsuprisingly i never hear back from them after giving the initial quote! All my customers that actually have work done with me are fantastic, because they realise the sort of time that has to be taken on things to get them right, and the money that costs!

 

Bottom line is, for a '6 conversion undertaken by a specialist, you are looking at around the 1k mark for an engine and fitting.

[GLPoomobile 958]

Fair play Dan, I don't think anybody could argue with that. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

 

When I spoke up in Welshpug's defense earlier, I was trying to make the point that we shouldn't necessarily wet nurse our readers and assume they'd be stupid enough to take his opinion over the many others available on here. I do believe that anyone who couldn't take Welshpug's comments in the context that he made them (yes, they weren't strictly valid to the OP as he'd made it clear he was in no position to do the work himself) must be very naive and dumb . But I always like to think that people aren't that stupid (no matter how many times I get proven otherwise). If you (and other specialists) are taking the brunt of stupid people who read things on the internet and believe every word, or take it out of context (as is the case here) then I don't blame you for being miffed by such comments.

 

Reminds me of Puma Racing's website where he talks about problem customers like these and makes it pretty clear that he won't deal with them. Great if you can live without their business (and I hope you can Dan). I know I wouldn't have the patience to deal with bulls*it customers, so I'd make a terrible businessman

Edited December 6, 2007 by GLPoomobile

[taylorspug 7]

TBH its a problem that affects the whole motor industry ive found, having worked in a few different parts of it now, people seem to think that its ok for them to earn a decent living, but that mechanics, engineers etc should work for less for some reason. Alot of it probably stems from the cliche rip off mechanic image that gets brought up every time people need work doing on their cars!

 

Ive no problem dealing with anyone and quoting work, and doing the work at any time, indeed id never get to a point where id refuse to work for someone if they asked me to (I doubt DB would either!). I can see how sometimes a price can come as a shock (especially if its a labour intensive job), but in the end they have to realise what this work costs to do. Ironically a few times ive done these quotes, the person has gone away and got the work done on the cheap, its gone wrong, then they have ended up coming to me to get it all put right anyway, so they have actually spent more than if id just done it originally!

 

Lol as i was writing it i said to myself "Im beginning to sound like Dave here", maybe i should get my blood pressure done too!

[whizzer71 0]

I think what alot of people also forget is that they are paying for our wealth of knowledge, Specialist skills,experience + ability,As an Ex Tech I went to college for four years (Back in my dark distant past),Learned all about what it is and what should be and yet at the end of it I still struggle to make a decent living.

The pace at which things change and advance is astronomical,you are expected to be able sort out complex problems,electrics,eletronics,deal with complex software,handle dangerous fluids,be agile and dextrous,and on top of all of that you gotta deal with the public too !

What other industry are you expected to learn all about your "subject" for 4 years and get paid a relative pittance for it at the end of it all ?.

Maybe I should have been a plasterer or a plumber or electrician and stuck to cars as my "hobby"

 

End of whinge,funnily enough I feel better for it !

 

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Maxi, at risk of sounding like a sychophantic arse kisser, but you've got so much knowledge to give (anyone who follows your topics on the rare occasion you grace us with your presence will know that you a lot of what you say is straight to the point and makes sense in most cases). I personally think it's a shame that you don't spend more time on here and share the knowledge - whether that is due to you having more important things to do with your life than loiter on the internet, or whether you have simply grown tired of the forum (I know you get quite worked up about people talking s*it on here ) I don't know, only you can answer that.

 

I've noticed quite a lot of our new members (and some old) posting about GTI6 conversion recently and saying that they can't find info and there's isn't as much available as for the Mi16. Maybe it's time a guide was written, as there is one for the MI on the main web site. Maybe a bunch of people, including yourself, should contribute to putting something together (unless you don't want to give away trade secrets . It would obviously help prevent any misinformation then.

 

You do seem to get worryingly worked up about things on here though. Have you had your blood pressure tested recently?

 

Sorry to stray off topic, I'm just doing my damndest to avoid doing any work today

 

 

I get worked up on here because people seem to miss the point on most topics. Underlying factual issues such as "REALITY" get overlooked. I thought about doing a guide for the gti6 conversion a few years ago when I first did one but to be honest, for any enthusiast with a real love for the car, the engineering and development that goes into it is all the fun. I dont mind giving the odd pointer here and there but I just dont have the time or energy to regurgitate the same thing every few weeks for some idiot to have an easy time of it. I might sound like a c*nt but in real life I am nothing like how I come across on the net.

 

 

Maxi

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

1. How do you unlock the ecu if the donor car isnt avaliable?

2. The manifold does foul the bulkhead with engine movement, how do you get over that?

3. How do you make the tacho work?

4. How did you get a proper speed sensor signal for the ECU (Required) when the 205 only has a cable operated one?

5. Which gearbox do you use whan a GTi6 uses a pull style clutch/which clutch do you use?

6. How do you do away with the air con pump/PAS pump and how does the Alternator belt setup and tension work when in a 205 ?

7. How do you retain the gti6 PAS pump if the 205 has PAS and still tension the belt??

8. How do you clear the master cylinder/rocker cover/cambelt cover?

9. How do you link the top hose to the rad?

10. How do you setup the top heater hose/header tank filler?

11.How do you you connect the tempreature and stop warning light (different sensors on gti6)?

12. How do you get the oil pressure gague working?

13. How do you connect the oil cooler/heater exchanger/plumb it in?

14. Where do you mount the ECU/battery box if the car has ABS and PAS?

 

A few answers for you those who want to know......

 

1. The only way to unlock a locked ECU if the matched transponder, key and ECU arent set up on the imobiliser loom to unlock them is to send them to ECU doctor. The number is on the net (google.co.uk) and costs around the 150 quid mark. The problem is then ultimately solved and the ecu can never be accidentally locked again.

 

2. Two options to get around this. Remove the manifold, chop through all 4 header pipes with an angle grinder and then close the joint up. This will re-angle the manifold to create the clearence required. Dont over do it though as you WILL have fouling issues with the gear linkage setup. The other way is to modify the engine mounts. I trapesed around a scrappy measuring lots of different models until I got a top mount at a different height. I made a spacer for the gearbox mount and then measuring the angle of the std engine mounts I calculated the amount to extend the bottom mount to retain the correct std engine angle. (I will leave you boys and girls to calculate this for yourself...... and I do prefer one of these two options, and there again I will let you all trial and error to see which works better for you).

 

3. Easy solution to this, remover the capacitor and resistor from the tacho circuit in the dials between the input and pin1 of the IC. Or splash out silly money on a convertor.

 

4. A dual output speed sensor is required (70 odd quid from pug) from the scrappy. These have both manual and electronic outputs so both the ecu and speedo are catered for.

 

5. If a std BE box designed for a push clutch is to be used (mi, 1600,1900) then you will require an mi clutch kit. The XU10J4RS and XU9J4 flywheels will both except either clutch so your options are endless. Retaining the 6 speed box will require a slight mod to the clutch cable, lift reverse cable and a stop fabricating to stop the wheel fouling the end casing of the box.

 

6. Some things I really just cant reveal........

 

7.

 

8. I always, before I insert the engine, machine/file/grind the last coil pack cover securing bolt hole from the rear rocker cover and then once the engine is on its mounts file down the coil pack cover itself. Never had a problem really with cambelt cover clearence.

 

9. The 6 engine has a silly clip on the top hose with a coolant out put on it, depending how you are plumbing up the cooler you can either join this before or after the output. A flexible hose should be joined to the end to meet up to the rad.

 

10. Realistically both heater hoses have to be run across the back of the bulkhead with a heat guard fabricated to protect them. A t piece has to be made to allow both the filler and top heater matrix hose to be connected. The other connects to the side thermosat/distribution housing.

 

11. Obvious and I really shouldnt even have to tell you.... Just bear in mind only one of the three plugs that is there at the moment is the ECU temp switch..........

 

12. This is so ovious I cant believe I overlooked it on the first conversion. Look at the location of both sensors on an s16 block, the location is there also on the gti6 block, it just has a bung in it that can be undone with a gearbox drainage tool. Use an s16 pressure sensor for the gauge and you are laughing.

 

13. Several ways, either use a BX16v nottom house and the std gti6 top hose (both have an output on them) or use a top hose for a phase 2 1.9 gti with PAS. This has the double output for a remote heat exhcanger.

 

14. It will go in, squeeze....chop...squeeze........chop.......swear....bleed...... squeeze....shes in!

 

Maxi

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Slight off topic but it always and always will make me laugh is when people see you have the engine in and think it's almost done, Shame that is the easy part of it all

[CaptainK 11]

If it helps, I did a little of my homework BEFORE joining this site, then after chatting to members here and reading posts I learnt a lot more about GTi6 conversions.

 

I've got a quote from a fellow member (Jonnie205 - mentioned above as one of the recommended ones) and I'm MORE than happy with the cost. Yes, its a fair amount of money but it was still a lot less than I was expecting. I'm impressed it could be done for that price. So I'm happy.

 

Jonnie205 - reply to your PM. I want it done ASAP PLLLLEEEEEAAAASSSEEEEEE. I'm all excited now the insurance people gave it the go ahead.

 

At this point I'd like to thank Jonnie205 for his input and helpfulness and generally answering all my newbie silly questions.