Gti-6 Conversion

[Guest pwig]

Hi folks,

 

I'm looking into getting a GTi-6 conversion for my 205 GTi, but I am completely mechancially useless

 

Are there any companies/people that do these conversions? ANy ideas on costs etc?

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[BuD 0]

Total ball park figures - £500-£1000 for the minimum parts you need. Then another £500+ for the conversion work, you may get the work done cheaper but only if you find someone that will do it at 'mates rates' as theres quite a lot of stuff to do.

 

To get a really high standard of finish with lots of hi-spec parts costs a LOT more especially if you arent doing the work yourself.

Edited November 30, 2007 by BuD

[danpug 1]

There are members who will do this conversion on here, jonnie205 is one of them.

[taylorspug 7]

I also do these conversions, feel free to drop me a PM if you want a quote.

[jonnie205 1]

done loads of these now feel free to pm

 

cheers

[whizzer71 0]

More than willing also have loads of pics of my previous two conversions if you wanna see the end result !

 

Tris

 

[Guest pwig]

THanks folks PM's have been sent

[welshpug 1,622]

I've done this conversion (allbeit in a ZX) for a total of £500

[whizzer71 0]

I've done this conversion (allbeit in a ZX) for a total of £500

 

 

Its probably very straight forward in a ZX tho isnt it ?,You probably dont have to cut and re angle the exhast manifold and build a custom down pipe to suit as on the 205,I would assume that it all "drops" straight in as the last ZX16v's had the XU10J4RS in them anyway ?

 

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

I've done this conversion (allbeit in a ZX) for a total of £500

 

 

Comments like this has now completed f***ed it for all these lads who are trying to quote for the conversion and to be honest, every other bugger who wants to attempt it. Youmay have been lucky in doing it for 500 quid but you are "lucky". On the whole people should be budgeting around the 500 quid mark just for a company to complete the conversion plus the 6 lump on top. The donor engine WILL need a cambelt, tensioners and waterpump, not to mention a service before it needs to go in, that alone totts up to around the 200 quid mark........

 

Engine(loom and ECU) 400

 

ECU unlocking 150+VAT

 

Service parts (oil, filter, cambelt etc) 180

 

Labour to undertake the conversion 500

 

Suddenly to doa proper conversion is starting to look a bit more substantial yet realistic. Lets not forget there will be a downpipe fitting kit required along with new fuel lines, cone filter, etc etc. Take some advice from someone who knows what theye are on about and has ACTUALLY DONE THIS CONVERSION SEVERAL TIMES.........it costs more than you think, not 500 bloody quid.

 

Maxi

Edited December 5, 2007 by maxi

[whizzer71 0]

Comments like this has now completed f***ed it for all these lads who are trying to quote for the conversion and to be honest, every other bugger who wants to attempt it. Youmay have been lucky in doing it for 500 quid but you are "lucky". On the whole people should be budgeting around the 500 quid mark just for a company to complete the conversion plus the 6 lump on top. The donor engine WILL need a cambelt, tensioners and waterpump, not to mention a service before it needs to go in, that alone totts up to around the 200 quid mark........

 

Engine(loom and ECU) 400

 

ECU unlocking 150+VAT

 

Service parts (oil, filter, cambelt etc) 180

 

Labour to undertake the conversion 500

 

Suddenly to doa proper conversion is starting to look a bit more substantial yet realistic. Lets not forget there will be a downpipe fitting kit required along with new fuel lines, cone filter, etc etc. Take some advice from someone who knows what theye are on about and has ACTUALLY DONE THIS CONVERSION SEVERAL TIMES.........it costs more than you think, not 500 bloody quid.

 

Maxi

 

Just the point I was trying to get across,its not just a case of getting the car and "fitting" the engine in the hole,theres alot more to it IF you want some thing thats going to be consistently reliable on a regular basis.

 

Tris

[davepug205 7]

ill keep a look out for you

 

give me a shout if you wont a hand with anything, the engines out of mine ready for the gti6 after Christmas so wouldn't

 

mind the experience

[welshpug 1,622]

engine, loom (complete front end wiring) ecu, gearbox driveshafts. £300 (68k mile side impact damaged 1998 car)

 

cat £50.

 

timing belt kit £30.

 

oil and filter £20.

 

downpipe gasket kit £15.

 

Lambda sensor £25.

 

so that's £440, I've spent a bit on sundries cleaning and painting the engine and engine bay of the donor (a £250 ZX)

 

so I can totally justify the £500 comment, there are way too many seriously overpriced engines out there, I did simply bolt it in, that's all there is to it even in a 205.

 

I was simply explaining that it can be done for this little, and you sir seem to have been royally stung for all the parts and engines in the conversions you have undertaken.

[returnofjim 0]

engine, loom (complete front end wiring) ecu, gearbox driveshafts. £300 (68k mile side impact damaged 1998 car)

 

cat £50.

 

timing belt kit £30.

 

oil and filter £20.

 

downpipe gasket kit £15.

 

Lambda sensor £25.

 

so that's £440, I've spent a bit on sundries cleaning and painting the engine and engine bay of the donor (a £250 ZX)

 

so I can totally justify the £500 comment, there are way too many seriously overpriced engines out there, I did simply bolt it in, that's all there is to it even in a 205.

 

I was simply explaining that it can be done for this little, and you sir seem to have been royally stung for all the parts and engines in the conversions you have undertaken.

 

£30 quid for a cambelt set? did u make it yourself? quality must be terrible at that price, a good quality belt alone would be around 30 quid, so for a good quality kit should be double that.

 

fitting a gti6 lump in a zx is nothing like doing it in a 205, a zx is virtually a 306! so in that case yep it would "just bolt in". In a 205 you have to think about a whole load of possible problems like exhaust manifold/bulkhead contact, inlet/rad contact, wiring, exhaust downpipe etc. I agree with you that you could do it for 500 quid if you got the engine cheap (which isnt easy) and did all the work yourself, but if your asking someone else to do the job in a 205 for you, and want a professional looking finish then 500 quid for labour alone is very resonable.

Edited December 5, 2007 by returnofjim

[welshpug 1,622]

Cambelt kit it was a Peugeot boxed Dayco Item with INA tensioners got lucky with the pricee, they're usually £68.

 

the wiring isn't straightforward at all, more wires than a 205 even!

 

can nobody weld and use and angle grinder themselves these days?

 

fitting the engine into a ZX was just as hard as the 205, the only difference is the bloody servo gets in the way in a 205!

 

 

bloody ell someone asked a question and I gave my answer FFS!

Edited December 5, 2007 by welshpug

[returnofjim 0]

Cambelt kit it was a Peugeot boxed Dayco Item with INA tensioners got lucky with the pricee, they're usually £68.

 

the wiring isn't straightforward at all, more wires than a 205 even!

 

can nobody weld and use and angle grinder themselves these days?

 

fitting the engine into a ZX was just as hard as the 205, the only difference is the bloody servo gets in the way in a 205!

bloody ell someone asked a question and I gave my answer FFS!

 

Im not trying to have a go at you and i agree you can do it yourself for around 500 quid but you gotta understand that some people are not mechanically minded at all, ive seen people looked confused when ive asked them to hand me a ratchet never mind welding, grinding and fitting engines.

[welshpug 1,622]

fairry muff!

 

I can highly reccomend giving DES developments a call then, they might be a few hours away from you but all the work I have seen is top notch.

 

Skip Brown cars are very close to you, though I don't know if they undertake this kind of stuff.

[jonnie205 1]

welshpug i dont think you are being anything close to realitic. How can somebody who has no expereience of working on cars, no tools or equipment, no garage, no means of collecting or removing doner engine actually carry out a conversion on thier car succesfully. In my eyes it does not even bear thinking about.

you are overseeing some costs also.

How many good engines do you think you can locate for £300 with 68k miles?

 

Have you considered the oil pressure gauge and rev counter issues with 205 conversion also?

[welshpug 1,622]

I'm being totally realistic, I simply stated that it is possible to carry out the conversion for this little money given the right circumstances, I know full well what troubles the 205 has, I have one!

 

Obviously if you don't have the mechanical knowledge then its best to find a specialist as I mentioned and recommended.

 

BTW, I don't have a garage, the engine was collected in the boot of my mum's car with a borrowed engine crane, and I got it for £300 because I simply refused to bay the stupid prices people are willing to pay.

 

get a bloody life guys!

Edited December 5, 2007 by welshpug

[GLPoomobile 958]

Just under 12 months ago I posted a similar topic on here because I was weighing up the pros and cons of either keeping my red 205 and getting an Mi or GTi6 conversion, or holding out for a 16v converted GTI to come along. I searched the forum (despite having read most of the stuff before), checked costs with companies like DES and got in touch with Taylorspug and Miles.

 

What I'm saying is I did some research to base a decision on, I didn't take the first opinion that came along as the gospel truth. Hopefully Pwig has the good sense to do the same

 

Do you not think it is slightly patronising to suggest that others may be mislead into believing that you can do a GTI6 conversion for 500 quid just because one member has done so? Get real! Someone was talking about doing a 205 Mi16 for a grand the other day including the cost of the 205! Does that mean that everyone who reads his post will believe they can do the same?

 

Welshpug may have missed the mark slightly by relating his experience, but it's still valid, it's just at the one extreme of the scale.

 

Don't Ecosse charge about 4k plus for this conversion? Are they guilty of setting a precedant and misleading people into thinking that is a normal price? Give people some credit!

 

I can't offer any suggestions about the conversion I'm afraid as I'd merely be repeating what has already been said. Rest assured that the info you need is on this forum if you put in a few hours searching. One thing I will say, as this advice was given to me, is that if you are going to pay somone to do the install then you will still have to provide the donor engine (in most cases) and the 'mechanic' will probably want to do a partial rebuild before installing it as they won't want any comeback from a failed engine. So there's not really any corner cutting to be had I'm afraid. Jonnie205 does seem to get donor engines passing through frequently though so I'd suspect he may be willing to both source the donor and do the work, but you'd have to speak to him about that. He's also got some great roads near him so the drive home would be very enjoyable! LOL

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

I'm being totally realistic, I simply stated that it is possible to carry out the conversion for this little money given the right circumstances, I know full well what troubles the 205 has, I have one!

 

Obviously if you don't have the mechanical knowledge then its best to find a specialist as I mentioned and recommended.

 

BTW, I don't have a garage, the engine was collected in the boot of my mum's car with a borrowed engine crane, and I got it for £300 because I simply refused to bay the stupid prices people are willing to pay.

 

get a bloody life guys!

 

 

Sorry mate but you are off the bloody planet. A gti6 goes straight into a 205 does it?!?!?!?!? This guy has come on here asking for an honest and realistic opinion and has got some numptey telling him he can do it for 500 quid and it goes straight in........????

 

If it goes straight in:

 

1. How do you unlock the ecu if the donor car isnt avaliable?

2. The manifold does foul the bulkhead with engine movement, how do you get over that?

3. How do you make the tacho work?

4. How did you get a proper speed sensor signal for the ECU (Required) when the 205 only has a cable operated one?

5. Which gearbox do you use whan a GTi6 uses a pull style clutch/which clutch do you use?

6. How do you do away with the air con pump/PAS pump and how does the Alternator belt setup and tension work when in a 205 ?

7. How do you retain the gti6 PAS pump if the 205 has PAS and still tension the belt??

8. How do you clear the master cylinder/rocker cover/cambelt cover?

9. How do you link the top hose to the rad?

10. How do you setup the top heater hose/header tank filler?

11.How do you you connect the tempreature and stop warning light (different sensors on gti6)?

12. How do you get the oil pressure gague working?

13. How do you connect the oil cooler/heater exchanger/plumb it in?

14. Where do you mount the ECU/battery box if the car has ABS and PAS?

 

I could go on and on, but its ok as it goes "straight" into a 205. Theres a lot of work involved in theses conversions and suddenly the 500 charged by some of the lads on here to do them seems very cheap. I can solve all of the above problems because I HAVE DONE IT SEVERAL TIMES and unlike a large majority on ehre I dont speak bulls*it. So go on, head out with your 500 quid budget, convert your 205..........

 

Or, PM Taylorspug (Dan taylor- Good mate of mine and knows exactly what hes doing), Jonnie205(been around for ages and has done piles of them) or one of the other lads and get it done properly. Christ im glad I dont get involved in this s*it anymore.

 

Maxi

[Alastairh 47]

Agreed.

 

From converting my sorrento, and a couple of freinds cars, there alot of out side work and running around, digging around in the scrappy to get relevent parts and trial and error, that aren't included in your £500 budget. So in reality you need to include your labour time (which obviously is going to be £0 by doing it yourself) but thats alot of time when your away from other things and grief from the Mrs.

 

For example: I had my engine in and out to sort the master cylinder clearance 4 times, and despite i build wiring looms and read wiring diagrams for machines everyday as a full time job, it still took me a few hours to get round the loom.

 

Where do you get your £30 cambelt kits? I've got a 6 belt to do this weekend

 

Al

[GLPoomobile 958]

Maxi, at risk of sounding like a sychophantic arse kisser, but you've got so much knowledge to give (anyone who follows your topics on the rare occasion you grace us with your presence will know that you a lot of what you say is straight to the point and makes sense in most cases). I personally think it's a shame that you don't spend more time on here and share the knowledge - whether that is due to you having more important things to do with your life than loiter on the internet, or whether you have simply grown tired of the forum (I know you get quite worked up about people talking s*it on here ) I don't know, only you can answer that.

 

I've noticed quite a lot of our new members (and some old) posting about GTI6 conversion recently and saying that they can't find info and there's isn't as much available as for the Mi16. Maybe it's time a guide was written, as there is one for the MI on the main web site. Maybe a bunch of people, including yourself, should contribute to putting something together (unless you don't want to give away trade secrets . It would obviously help prevent any misinformation then.

 

You do seem to get worryingly worked up about things on here though. Have you had your blood pressure tested recently?

 

Sorry to stray off topic, I'm just doing my damndest to avoid doing any work today

[Anthony 1,000]

There's two very different things being discussed here.

 

Yes, if you're handy with a spanner and you get a complete package with unlocked ECU for a cheap price then you can do a GTi-6 conversion yourself for £500. Less than that if you get lucky with prices, or buy a complete accident damaged '6 and sell off the bits you don't need.

 

However, when you're not doing the work yourself and you've got to pay labour, then of course it's going to cost vastly more money - Maxi, Jonnie, and Dan aren't going to be charging anything like garage labour rates, but it's still *many* hours worth of work that goes in, most of it on niggly little bits required to do the conversion properly that you don't even think about until you've done the conversion yourself. Remember that a GTi-6 conversion is more involved than a simple 8v swap or Mi16 conversion, and I would expect to be charged several hundred in labour alone if I wasn't in the position to do it myself.

[whizzer71 0]

Sorry mate but you are off the bloody planet. A gti6 goes straight into a 205 does it?!?!?!?!? This guy has come on here asking for an honest and realistic opinion and has got some numptey telling him he can do it for 500 quid and it goes straight in........????

 

If it goes straight in:

 

1. How do you unlock the ecu if the donor car isnt avaliable?

2. The manifold does foul the bulkhead with engine movement, how do you get over that?

3. How do you make the tacho work?

4. How did you get a proper speed sensor signal for the ECU (Required) when the 205 only has a cable operated one?

5. Which gearbox do you use whan a GTi6 uses a pull style clutch/which clutch do you use?

6. How do you do away with the air con pump/PAS pump and how does the Alternator belt setup and tension work when in a 205 ?

7. How do you retain the gti6 PAS pump if the 205 has PAS and still tension the belt??

8. How do you clear the master cylinder/rocker cover/cambelt cover?

9. How do you link the top hose to the rad?

10. How do you setup the top heater hose/header tank filler?

11.How do you you connect the tempreature and stop warning light (different sensors on gti6)?

12. How do you get the oil pressure gague working?

13. How do you connect the oil cooler/heater exchanger/plumb it in?

14. Where do you mount the ECU/battery box if the car has ABS and PAS?

 

I could go on and on, but its ok as it goes "straight" into a 205. Theres a lot of work involved in theses conversions and suddenly the 500 charged by some of the lads on here to do them seems very cheap. I can solve all of the above problems because I HAVE DONE IT SEVERAL TIMES and unlike a large majority on ehre I dont speak bulls*it. So go on, head out with your 500 quid budget, convert your 205..........

 

Or, PM Taylorspug (Dan taylor- Good mate of mine and knows exactly what hes doing), Jonnie205(been around for ages and has done piles of them) or one of the other lads and get it done properly. Christ im glad I dont get involved in this s*it anymore.

 

Maxi

 

 

 

Couldnt have put it better myself,And This is exactly the point I was trying to put across