How To Set Ignition Timing Now ?

[DamirGTI 327]

Hello !

 

I've got one recurved dizzy adjusted to suit my engine specs ( 11.1 CR , head job , gearbox etc.) , this dizzy is adjusted at "H&H Ignition Solution" workshop , but they didn't say how should i set ignition timing now ?!?

 

So any tips from previous "H&H" dizzy owners ? should i do this on old fashion way by ear (go for a drive and advance the dizzy until the engine starts to detonate and then back off 2deg. ?!??...) or with the strobe light at idle ?

 

Thanks !

Damir

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

I'd go for the old fashioned method personally, don't see much point in using book figures on a modded dizzy. Probably best way though is to visit a rolling road...

 

Rob

 

P.S. I'm running 10.4:1 on standard timing at the moment and it isn't ideal so would be very interested to hear how you get on with it.

[DamirGTI 327]

Hello !

 

Well i can't visit Rolling Road as because we on here have only 2 maybe 3 Rolling Road workshops and they are a bit far from me and they are mainly for the chip tuning business , to be honest i really don't trust any one of them Rolling Road operators here in my country , they are not so skillful adjusting these aftermarket ECU , fuel mixture , ignition stuff etc. ( the major money for them is the chip tuning and that is what they do mostly ...) ...

 

So i will rather do that by myself as best as i can and keep the money in my pocket .. i will try usual on the road adjusting procedure - advance , drive and listen for the engine sounds when it starts to detonate and adjust back few degrees or as necessary for peak performance ..

 

I will report my adjustment if you're interested

(I'm not sure if its 11.1 CR or maybe a bit more , somewhere as high as 12.3 , however I've had timing retarded all the way back that it was maybe 1mm left to the end of how much it can be retarded , it was 0deg. at idle and if i was trying to advance form this position only 1mm it was staring to detonate at once and on good quality 98RON petrol ! .. so it was a must to do something with that dizzy springs ..)

 

Thanks anyway !

Damir

[petert 554]

Set it to 31-32 deg. total (not inc. vacuum advance).

[DamirGTI 327]

Hello Peter !

 

So with a strobe light ?! 31-32deg at what rmp. and is there mark on the flywheel for 31-32 deg ? (must admit i didn't watch marks on flywheel with strobe light before so i don't know about this ..)

Or i must make this mark by myself - if so can you please explain me how should i do that

 

And also - should i connect back the vacuum advance now with this recurved dizzy or drive with disconnected vacuum advance as i was before ?!

 

Thanks !

Damir

[shine 0]

I have about same spec as you, Cr 11:1, twin 45's, Pt27, ported head, balanced bottom and ordered a H&H dizzy for my specs, with vacum removed.

 

Tried diffrent settings, but 32 deg seems by the moment to work best for me. I used a strobe light and made a mark on the flywheel when I checked the engine was on top.

 

Espen

[DamirGTI 327]

Hello !

 

Ok. i will try that , but how do you make 32deg. mark on the flywheel ?! i suppose that i will need dial gauge and degree wheel for the crank pulley to find true TDC first

Can this be done without removing the head ? (like reach the piston crown trough the spark plug hole ..)

 

So you are running without vacuum advance connected ?

 

Thanks !

Damir

[shine 0]

Checked TDC by removing a spark plug.

 

Then set a mark to flywheel, in the "window" in clutch housing, and adjust the degree-button on strobe light to feks 32 deg, and adjust dizzy so the strobe flash on the mark. I used a markingpen to mark one theet, and when you have adj. dizzy to the degrees you have set the strobe to, you will notice that it "looks like the marked theet standing still". Think i run engine at about 2000 rpm.

 

I have the vacum housing on dizzy removed, when H&H build it.

 

 

Espen

[petert 554]

Some 8V flywheels have a mark at 30 deg. BTDC. This was how you set the timing, at 3000rpm from memory. Then in later years, it was done at idle. Vacuum must be disconnected.

[andy0075 9 1 Cars]

Hi,

 

How much money have you spent for the modification ( ink. shipping ) and what do they exactly change ?

 

In my purpose i only need peak performance ( 1/4mile race ). So will i got

any performance increase of power from that ? I mean my engine never revs under 3500rpm ?

 

Andy0075

[DamirGTI 327]

Hi !

 

Ok. thanks for advices ! will try that , but first i must buy that strobe light as because i don't have one yet ..

 

I've been test driving yesterday (I've set the dizzy by the ear on the road and i will leave it like this until i by that timing light ..) and i was shocked how fast this car goes now with recurved dizzy

i really can't believe this , such a big improvement it pulls so strong in each gear like that it has some sort of charger - brutal and like never ending acceleration -> love this engine so much !

 

It has a lot more torque than before , rapid mid range and especially top end acceleration/power , better throttle response , nice crisp engine sound and rock stable idle speed

 

I can strongly recommend this guys - http://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/ , they made great job with this dizzy and for only 20 quid - respects !

 

Thanks !

Damir

[DamirGTI 327]

Hi,

 

How much money have you spent for the modification ( ink. shipping ) and what do they exactly change ?

 

In my purpose i only need peak performance ( 1/4mile race ). So will i got

any performance increase of power from that ? I mean my engine never revs under 3500rpm ?

 

Andy0075

 

 

Hi !

 

Looking at the dizzy from outside now i can see one tin spring which has a lot tension and one tick spring on the other side with just a little slack and that's only thing what i can see from outside so me thinks that they just fit different rate springs inside and re-tense them to suit the engine specs ...

However it works like a bloody miracle

 

Costs :

Adjusting - 20.00

Postage - 12.00

Vat - 5.60

 

Total - 37.60 quid

 

Cheers !

Damir

[sutol 0]

For setting full advance at 30/32 degrees I would mark the crank pulley off using a school protractor and tipex correcting fluid.

I would mark off - TDC and 15 degrees btc and 30 degrees btc on the pulley with the tipex

 

I would run the engine (vac pipe off) using a strobe light and note what the advance is at 1000rpm and full advance say 4000/4500 revs

 

I would then adjust the timing so that at full advance you have about thirty degrees.

 

I would then time the car on the road from say 2000 to 5000 in third and continue advancing and testing until it would go no faster.

 

Your car will probably have loads of advance at low revs to smooth out the tick-over and about 10 to 15 degrees built in controlled by the springs.

They do this by doctoring the spring baseplate to alter min and max advance, then putting stronger springs in to hold the advance back until the revs build giving full advance about 4000 revs.

 

Good eh!

[DamirGTI 327]

Hello young man

 

Ok. but how should i find true TDC with the head fitted (i really don't want to remove the head again juts because of this TDC position measuring ..) is it necessary to find exactly true TDC of the 1 cylinder or bring it up at least near the true TDC and then make a mark on the crank pulley ?!

TDC is 360deg. right ?

 

 

But as Peter says if i have 30deg. mark on my flywheel do i really need to do all this TDC position finding and make additional marks on the crank pulley ?!

 

Thanks !

Damir

[welshpug 1,626]

IIRC 8v flywheels already have timing marks.

[DamirGTI 327]

Hi !

 

So all of them 8v flyheels have already stamped 30deg. marks ?!

 

Thanks !

Damir

[welshpug 1,626]

i've just checked in my haynes manual, they should have a single mark on 0 deg (i.e TDC) and a double width mark at 30 deg.

 

there is also a plate on the bellhousing with 2 marks, the upper one is 10 degrees BTDC. thats if i've understood this correctly...

[DamirGTI 327]

Ok. thanks !

 

Will check that as soon as this stormy weather goes away - it's so bloody cold outside now

 

Regards !

Damir

[sutol 0]

Ok. thanks !

 

Will check that as soon as this stormy weather goes away - it's so bloody cold outside now

 

Regards !

Damir

 

I'm lazy and would take the front wheel off and mark the pulley at the timing belt end of the engine. It doesn't have to be dead accurate as long as you are near because you will do the final testing with a stopwatch on the road and tdc and degrees are just marks and numbers. What matters is that the engine pulls at its strongest without pinking (pinging) between your selected rev range, it is possible to set it up without refering to any marks at all. All you have to do is test and twiddle until you are happy that there is no more power to be had. Rolling roads are quicker but they don't test the car actually out on the road and their figures are meaningless if the car does not go at its best.

 

Am I making sense ?

[petert 554]

Rolling roads are quicker but they don't test the car actually out on the road and their figures are meaningless if the car does not go at its best.

Am I making sense ?

 

No, that doesn't make sense. Rolling roads are the ONLY way to set the ignition timing properly. This is done by watching the torque readout, whilst adjusting the timing until the maximum is reached. If you have mapped ignition, it's quite easy but time consuming, thus RR operators like to skimp out. The results at part throttle are amazing however. Maximum torque is not the onset of pinking, it might be 5 degrees less!

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Hi !

 

Looking at the dizzy from outside now i can see one tin spring which has a lot tension and one tick spring on the other side with just a little slack and that's only thing what i can see from outside so me thinks that they just fit different rate springs inside and re-tense them to suit the engine specs ...

However it works like a bloody miracle

 

Costs :

Adjusting - 20.00

Postage - 12.00

Vat - 5.60

 

Total - 37.60 quid

 

Cheers !

Damir

 

Wow, for that sort of cash I really ought to get on with it!!!

 

Rob

[DamirGTI 327]

Wow, for that sort of cash I really ought to get on with it!!!

 

Rob

 

 

My strong recommendations - go for it , believe me this H&H recurved dizzy really works to unleash full engine performance (my engine was a bit sluggish before with standard dizzy advance curve ..)

 

This recurving job worth every penny

 

Cheers !

Damir

[sutol 0]

No, that doesn't make sense. Rolling roads are the ONLY way to set the ignition timing properly. This is done by watching the torque readout, whilst adjusting the timing until the maximum is reached. If you have mapped ignition, it's quite easy but time consuming, thus RR operators like to skimp out. The results at part throttle are amazing however. Maximum torque is not the onset of pinking, it might be 5 degrees less!

 

The thing is, I have always used the cheap option which is on the road with a stopwatch. If I can tune to cover a set distance always using the same rev band in the quickest possible time then a session on a rolling road is not going to improve things.

Tell me I'm wrong and explain why

[welshpug 1,626]

The thing is, I have always used the cheap option which is on the road with a stopwatch. If I can tune to cover a set distance always using the same rev band in the quickest possible time then a session on a rolling road is not going to improve things.

Tell me I'm wrong and explain why

 

 

perfectly logical and has the same end result but maybe not to such a fine degree

[sutol 0]

perfectly logical and has the same end result but maybe not to such a fine degree

thought I was in need of a rest for a while there, I'll get me coat