Some Bad Sill Rot - Advise Please

[gti-si 0]

Now, before I get shot in the face, it's not a 205 gti. It's a friends Ford KA. He found some rust on the sill, under the door seal. Today we planned to sand it all down, get rid of the rust and then use some mesh and filler.

 

When he took the seal back, he found a shedload of rust, running right along the sill. So basically, i'll post up some pictures and if someone could hand out there expert advise on it, we'd be very grateful. He's thinking of selling the car, so the most cost effective way is imperative. So, if anyones got some advise on how to go about fixing it and de rotting, or how much a body shop would cost to fix it up, we'd be very gratefull. Thanks again

Edited July 29, 2007 by gti-si

[welshpug 1,627]

one for paintguy I think, he recently did a Ka in Pink and had similar issues.

[gti-si 0]

One more.

 

Yeah, was thinking he'd have some insight. or taylorpug

Edited July 29, 2007 by gti-si

[GLPoomobile 958]

My jaw dropped when I saw the topic title and your name Si! Glad it's not the 205!

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

that ideally needs grinding back and plates welding on to it really. just bodging it up with filler and mesh is going to look awful, not to mention it will be dangerous. the firdt thing a potential buyer is going to do if they see that is to give it poke. it wouldnt take much to go through a bodge.

[gti-si 0]

Yeah I thought that myself, people do tend to check the sills for rust spots etc. Welding some plate in there seems a good idea. What about the inside of the sill? It seems superficial on the inside, and theres some light surface rust on the inside bottom. Grind the rust back then check out the side wall? If we do all that, what kind of weld does it need? I don't have a clue about stuff like that...Would it need seem welding or just tack welding then sealing?

 

He is completly skint atm, and has other commitments money wise, but, it need's sorting soon before it gets alot worse. How much could two body work numpties do? Just a case of aking as little work as possible for the bodywork man.

 

My jaw dropped when I saw the topic title and your name Si! Glad it's not the 205!

 

Haha, I was thinking as I posted it "I hope Steve doesn't have a heart condition"

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

Yeah I thought that myself, people do tend to check the sills for rust spots etc. Welding some plate in there seems a good idea. What about the inside of the sill? It seems superficial on the inside, and theres some light surface rust on the inside bottom. Grind the rust back then check out the side wall? If we do all that, what kind of weld does it need? I don't have a clue about stuff like that...Would it need seem welding or just tack welding then sealing?

 

He is completly skint atm, and has other commitments money wise, but, it need's sorting soon before it gets alot worse. How much could two body work numpties do? Just a case of aking as little work as possible for the bodywork man.

Haha, I was thinking as I posted it "I hope Steve doesn't have a heart condition"

 

just concentrate your efforts on the 2 holes and get them welded up. if you take a grinder to the surface rust its bound to create a hole and leave you with even more work than when you first started.

 

you need to start by grinding all the way round the 2 holes to expose good fresh metal that your bodywork man can weld too. if you can do as much preparation work as poss you may find that a local garage would only charge 40 or so quid to weld it up for you. once its welded get it ground down as flat as possible and shape it with some filler. mask it up and spray with some underseal.

 

hth

[steve@cornwall 100]

just concentrate your efforts on the 2 holes and get them welded up. if you take a grinder to the surface rust its bound to create a hole and leave you with even more work than when you first started.

 

you need to start by grinding all the way round the 2 holes to expose good fresh metal that your bodywork man can weld too. if you can do as much preparation work as poss you may find that a local garage would only charge 40 or so quid to weld it up for you. once its welded get it ground down as flat as possible and shape it with some filler. mask it up and spray with some underseal.

 

hth

 

Then put some chrome or rubber "styling strips" right across the lot

[mattmk1 0]

You have a couple of options really depending how much you want to spend and what finish your after.

Firstly have you pulled the carpet up to check the inner sill? Youll have to clean back the surface rust to make sure its solid metal, otherwise the welder will blow holes through it, and if not, the MOT man will with his screwdriver

 

Assuming that the inner sill is o.k, then you can either make a repair section, butt weld the new metal in and blow it over with a rattle can - what colour is the car by the way? Metallic? . It'd pass an MOT, look hardly noticeable and personally id charge around £150.

 

The proper way is a new outer sill, id guess most will charge around £200-250 plus parts. But that would be painted in a booth with a factory finish.

 

Or, it pains me to say it - you can plate over the hole, youll need to seam weld it - weld an inch leave an inch - and thatll get you through mot, its the messiest but cheapest and easiest way.

 

Depends on the age of the car really as to what route you take, weve been welding up 02 reg KA's before now. Ford anti corrosion

Edited July 29, 2007 by mattmk1

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

Or, it pains me to say it - you can plate over the hole, youll need to seam weld it - weld an inch leave an inch - and thatll get you through mot, its the messiest but cheapest and easiest way.

im going to argue with you on this one. it needs to be continously welded to pass an mot. if i looked at an repair patch and i could see it was welded like you suggest i would fail it.

 

i have also been welding up a few newer fords recently as well, there great aint they!

Edited July 29, 2007 by pugger

[Paintguy 0]

Firstly have you pulled the carpet up to check the inner sill?

My first thoughts! The one we did recently wasn't as bad as that on the outer sills, but had up to an inch gap between the floor and inner sill! Check that out before you go any further.

 

I'd agree with matt - 'best' way would be to replace the whole outer sill, but cutting right back to good metal and welding in a patch might be more realistic.

 

Has it gone around the petrol cap and rear wiper arm yet? If not, it will do soon

[pugboyracer 3]

Christ, these are terrible! I'm working my way through my M5 at the moment and its not far off that, but has the excuse of being 20 years old and having covered 178000 miles!

 

Shocking, just shocking.

[hengti 2]

Shocking, just shocking.

 

thinking that too

 

and what state is the inner sill going to be in?! doesn't look too good from the photos

 

p*ss poor of FORD really (in this 'day and age' and all that)

[gti-si 0]

I think he breifly checked the inner sills today and said it didn't look too bed. I think the footwell will be on it's way soonn though as theres been a puddle in there. I don't get how Ford have done f*** all about the rust problem, they've had atleast half a century!

 

Pugger would that be a straight MOT fail? What about with the sills botched?

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

I think he breifly checked the inner sills today and said it didn't look too bed. I think the footwell will be on it's way soonn though as theres been a puddle in there. I don't get how Ford have done f*** all about the rust problem, they've had atleast half a century!

 

Pugger would that be a straight MOT fail? What about with the sills botched?

 

if the patches are not continously welded i would fail it tbh. you can tell instantly whether a sill has been botched, if he has any doubts that it has, he will use the 'corrosion assesment tool' on it. a botched repair wont stand up to a few pokes with that.

Edited July 29, 2007 by pugger

[Jrod 7]

Slightly offtopic here but to do with rust and Mot's

 

We had an old SJ and it was very rotten, we decided to bodge it (as it was mainly used off road.)

 

The drivers footwell had a big hole in it which we literally screwed a sheet of metal over, ground off the screws and covered the whole thing in tigerseal. I know this should fail an MOT but how would it, even if he saw that it looked bodged can he actually scrape the tigerseal off (it would take some work to get it off) ?

 

It doesn't matter as we sold it, just curious...

Edited July 29, 2007 by Jrod

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

Slightly offtopic here but to do with rust and Mot's

 

We had an old SJ and it was very rotten, we decided to bodge it (as it was mainly used off road.)

 

The drivers footwell had a big hole in it which we literally screwed a sheet of metal over, ground off the screws and covered the whole thing in tigerseal. I know this should fail an MOT but how would it, even if he saw that it looked bodged can he actually scrape the tigerseal off (it would take some work to get it off) ?

 

It doesn't matter as we sold it, just curious...

 

 

4x4's are alot different to cars in that they have an seperate chassis. without looking at it to determine the various load and structural points i couldnt tell you if i would pass it or not. as a good example of this, i mot'd a disco the other day, it was as rotten as a pear on both of the inner wings, i couldnt fail it as it had no load points on the inner wing as it runs a seperate chassis to which all of the suspension etc is attached, but to look at, it looked frigin dangerous!

 

edit: to answer your question, you can actually scrape the underseal off if you suspect a bad, botched repair. maybe you had a blind mot tester!!

Edited July 29, 2007 by pugger

[DaveW 6]

Is that a design flaw with ka's then? looks like lots of water have got in over the years..

[SamGTi 0]

My girlfriends Ka is rusty in exactly the same places! And last week one of her rear suspension springs just completely snapped in half with no warning! Great quality!

[DaveW 6]

Ka's are just wank a mate had one and the door handle snapped off in the heat of the sun!

[craig f90 0]

All fords are prone to going rusty. After a few years the arches start to blister. Its mainly the seams that start to go first, where a panel is spot welded to another.

[Guest Coopkiller]

All fords are prone to going rusty. After a few years the arches start to blister. Its mainly the seams that start to go first, where a panel is spot welded to another.

 

 

Off topic again but just wondering if the Focus is any better or are they rusting as well. I know the MK2 mondeos are bad.

 

Ford must be about the worst maker for rust now?

[hengti 2]

^Paintguy's the best to ask for details, but early Foci are also rotting; couldn't quite believe the state of the first rotten Focus door bottom i saw recently

 

whilst Ford are in all sorts of trouble at the moment, it seems a real shame that their 'new edge' vehicles (having turned the market on its head in turns of mass-market driver appeal) seem to rot so badly

[Rob Thomson 6]

I only opened this thread because I thought it might be of some relevance to the problem my girlfriend has with her KA and am surprised just how much relevance it has!

 

I just can't believe how bad they are; they're made from the same kind of steel as a sh*t Escort Mk1 that I had as a learn-to-weld project and the rust-protection's no better either. I just can't believe that anything vaguely modern rusts like that. She needs to get it sorted in the next couple of months because the MOT's due, so I'll keep you posted with progress.

 

Incidentally, I've had a couple of Mk2 Mondeos and neither had any rust. My brother's is also clean as a whistle.

[pugman211 0]

All cars rust!! whether they be steel or allminum. All lower market cars will rust more because of the way they are made and the crap budget they are made with! The more prestige bracket of vehicles stand a better chance and are usually made with better quality of metals.

 

But quite simply, its ur car! you should look after it. If you see rust, and dont tell me u'd miss a hole like that, then u'd want to sort it asap to deal with the problem! but saying that, Fords especially, if they bothered to put stonechipping on the sills, and better door seals, then most cars would not rust the way they do! Just another opinion