1.9 Swaping A 1.1 In A Cj 205

[eu_andreiutz 0]

The injection supply relay - main relay.

I`m talking about pin 36...like u said.

Well they are normal relays....but it doesn`t make any difference, like you said, the peugeot guy said the same thing.

Like I said....the ECU gets really hot with 12 on pin 36.

Pin 36 also doesn`t give me 0-1 V with the ignition on....just 12V all the time.

I took out all the sensors , only the relays were on the loom and it`s still getting hot...any ideas?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

What readings are you getting at the ecu pin 37?

 

Pin 14, 19 & 24 should all be earths, if one is missing this could be why your ecu is getting hot.

 

Pins 27, 36 & 37 should all feed 12v into the ecu, 27 & 37 with the ignition on & 36 with the ignition off.

 

Graham.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

It`s exactly how you wrote it.

I verified it from the autodata cd too.

Everything seems OK.

The guy at peugeot said that the first time I got there....about the earths.

He said that the only thing that seems wrong is the ECU.

It doesn`t provide the 5V for the flow meter....and 0 V for the tachymetric relay.

He measured the circuit board...and it seems that something is wrong with it.

Also he said that maybe the loom is fried somewhere and some wires are shorting.

Any other ideas?

Anything would help.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Have you tried another ecu? That is currently the only thing that can be at fault if all the wiring is OK that you can swap.

 

I agree that the loom could be causing the problems if it is damaged somewhere in the wiring but didn't you say earlier that your ecu was suspect?

 

If you can try another ecu or test your ecu on a car that works you shuold be able to get a step closer to having your car running imo.

 

Graham.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

I couldn`t find an ecu around here so I`m buying one on ebay.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

How can I test the Ignition module to see that it is working?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

How can I test the Ignition module to see that it is working?

You need a working car to swap it onto & see if it works.

 

I don't know of any way to test the ignition module other than that.

 

Graham.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

It just struck my mind.

What do you thing about megasquirt or other engine management systems?

I thought if I have to change the ECU then why not change it with something good?

[eu_andreiutz 0]

Hello everyone after a good holyday.

 

Started working on my 205 again.

Changed the ECU with a good one.

Still geting the same stuff.

I`ve made some modifications to the supply of the ECU as I suspect the schematics i have is a little wrong.

I`ve put pin 37 together with the ignition on wire.

Now when I put the ignition on the fuel pump starts and i see a spark.

But the injectors open when I do this and also if I crank it, it doesnt have any spark.

Still looking for errors in the loom.

How can I test the speed sensor to see if it`s working? something like 3 volts get there with the plug off, but when I plug it back in I get no spark.

Also why the heck is the ECU opening the injectors ?(survived one flood of the cilinders) I hope it`s still in working order.

I measured the - for the injectors and when I put the ignition on it`s a full earth there.

Any ideas?

[ifcho 0]

Just a quick advise, make sure that you have taken power for the ECU from a good source.

 

When you crank the engine many circuits are left without any current and this may be the reason why you do not get any spark during the cranking.

 

Pull a wire directly from the battery to the ECU power and test the engine again.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

The ecu power is from the original loom....directly from the batery.

And I don`t know why the freakin ecu send`s the earth for the injectors when I put the ignition on and not when I crank it.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

What other changes have you made to the wiring prior to this one?

I`ve made some modifications to the supply of the ECU as I suspect the schematics i have is a little wrong.

I`ve put pin 37 together with the ignition on wire.

 

Now when I put the ignition on the fuel pump starts and i see a spark.

You should only see a spark from the spark plugs when the car is being cranked over, if the engine is not cranking & you have a spark then something is definately wrong.

 

You shouldn't have needed to change any of the wiring for the ecu or to the engine control relay (pin 37 goes there) because it shouldn't have changed from taking it off the donor car. Its an enclosed loom, the only connections you need to make are for the coil feed, the wire from the fuel pump relay to the fuel pump & the revcounter (& the K light if you are using it).

 

The ecu should only have one feed into it & that is directly from the battery shunt box.

 

How can I test the speed sensor to see if it`s working? something like 3 volts get there with the plug off, but when I plug it back in I get no spark.

The M1.3 ecu doesn't have a speed sensor afaik unless you mean the Crank position sensor on the gearbox which reads the flywheel position? If you do then it shouldn't have 3v at any pins of the plug at any time. The maximum you should have there is 2v / 1ms but you need an ossciloscope to read this afaik & that is when the engine is running. With just the ignition on thee shouldn't be any votlage at the CPS plug at any pin.

 

Also why the heck is the ECU opening the injectors ?(survived one flood of the cilinders) I hope it`s still in working order.

I measured the - for the injectors and when I put the ignition on it`s a full earth there.

Any ideas?

Wiring fault, you must've changed the wiring to the injection relay & for some reason its loosing power when you switch it on. Either that or the relay is switching in the wrong order imo.

 

Graham.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

I measured the resistance between pin 19-Earth and pin 16-17- injectors and I have no resistance, when I put the ignition on even less resistance.

 

Does someone have the internal of the 1.9 Motronic ECU?

And a GOOD schematic for the electrics of the 1.9 XU9JAZ engine?

The bigest problem is that on the schematics of the XU9JAZ engine that I have....at the main relay the 5-th pin, that tells the ecu that the ignition switch is off seems to power the ecu up.

I thought that the relay has a diferent order to power up.

 

The speed sensor has the 2 V you are talking about, with the plug off.

Please, I don`t know what to do next.

Edited August 28, 2007 by eu_andreiutz

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

Graham is right, ECU gets power directly from the positive battery distribution block.

when you switch the ignition on, the injection relay clicks and gives +12v to injectors

and when you crank the engine, fuel pump relay switches on as well and the ECU

provides earth to the injectors to open them while at the same time the ECU sends

signal to ignition amplifier. the only thing that triggers the ECU when you're cranking

is the crank position sensor on the gearbox.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I measured the resistance between pin 19-Earth and pin 16-17- injectors and I have no resistance, when I put the ignition on even less resistance.

Pin 19 is an earth so you should have no resistance & pin 16 & 17 are to the injectors (16 injectors 1 & 2, 17, 3& 4) so again you shouldn't have any resistance between them.

 

How do you get less than no resistance?

 

The only wiring diagrams I have are the same as you have in the Haynes manual. I thought you had Autodata?

 

Graham.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

Yes I have Autodata.

I`m looking at the pin data-engine management to see what I should have at pin 37- it says there "Ignition on - 11-14V".

Unfortunatelly if I let the original wiring pin 37 has 0V with the ignition on and 12 V with the ignition off, thats why it was getting hot with the ignition off.

From haynes XU9JAZ engine schematics pin 37 shouldn`t have any voltage as it is connected to the middle pin of the main relay and it should have 12V only with the ignition off....that why I`m suspecting that the haynes XU9JAZ it`s a little bit wrong.

Tell me - are there any other types of relays? Ones that connect both the in and the out of the relay?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Pin 37 should have a 11-14v input signal when the ignition on which comes from the relay & is lost after it is switched closed by the igniton.

 

Have you got an ignition switched feed to either of the relay's?

 

Looking at my Haynes wiring diagram (which does partly contradict the Autodata pin data but I don't have the autodata wiring diagrams) you should have a switched feed from the ignition going to the tachymetric relay & then from there to the injection supply relay which close's this relay & sends the feed to the injectors.

 

It also appears that the ecu pin 37 shouldn't have a voltage when the ignition is switched on but should when its off as yours was.

 

You should have a four pin relay for the tachymetric relay & a five pin one for the injection control afaik. They will only fit into the relay plugs one way.

 

Graham.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

Pin 37 should have a 11-14v input signal when the ignition on which comes from the relay & is lost after it is switched closed by the igniton.

Yes, that`s how it is with the original loom, but it get`s hot with the ignition off.

 

Have you got an ignition switched feed to either of the relay's?

Well pin 36-wire 36 and pin 3-wire 20C are switched feeds - aren`t they?

 

Looking at my Haynes wiring diagram (which does partly contradict the Autodata pin data but I don't have the autodata wiring diagrams) you should have a switched feed from the ignition going to the tachymetric relay & then from there to the injection supply relay which close's this relay & sends the feed to the injectors.

Yes it seems to be like that. pin 3 to the tachymetric relay and pin 36 to the injection relay.

 

It also appears that the ecu pin 37 shouldn't have a voltage when the ignition is switched on but should when its off as yours was.

I cand find the bloody mistake.

 

You should have a four pin relay for the tachymetric relay & a five pin one for the injection control afaik. They will only fit into the relay plugs one way.

 

Graham.

Both relays are 5 pin but the tachy plug doesn`t have the middle pin.

The service boss at peugeot here said that the injector transistors might be broken and sugested i`d check them first(they are replaceable) and changing them, he said that because between pin 19 and 16,17 should be a resistance, althought the injectors stay open always.

I`m thinking about spliting the loom to pieces and checking everything again and going to an electronist to change the tranzistors.

Any other ideas are welcome.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

Also I wanted to ask you if the canister solenoid and simulation resistor are so important for the ECU and what do they look like.

Those are the only ones that are not connected to the original loom.

 

Thanks.

Starting to rip apart the loom now.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

Graham is right, ECU gets power directly from the positive battery distribution block.

when you switch the ignition on, the injection relay clicks and gives +12v to injectors

and when you crank the engine, fuel pump relay switches on as well and the ECU

provides earth to the injectors to open them while at the same time the ECU sends

signal to ignition amplifier. the only thing that triggers the ECU when you're cranking

is the crank position sensor on the gearbox.

 

Actually this is a little more complicated:

"When you put the ignition on, the ignition amplifier send a spark to the sparkplugs...thats why the tachymetric relay opens just for a second when you put the ignition on.

Thats why sometimes when you just put the ignition on the engine makes a tiny explosion - if there still is compresion at the cilinder where the initial spark goes.

Also when you stop the engine there is another spark."

Thats a quote from the peugeot gchief of service.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Yes, that`s how it is with the original loom, but it get`s hot with the ignition off.

Well pin 36-wire 36 and pin 3-wire 20C are switched feeds - aren`t they?

Yes it seems to be like that. pin 3 to the tachymetric relay and pin 36 to the injection relay.

Yes, looking at my haynes they are the switched feeds for closing the tachy relay(wire 20C), sending power to the fuel pump & also for closing the injection supply relay(wire 36) sending power to the injectors instead of the ecu pin 37.

 

I wouldn't get to far into stripping the loom just yet even though we seem to have covered most possibilities for mistakes made during removal & refitting into your car I still think the problem lies with the connections you've done.

Both relays are 5 pin but the tachy plug doesn`t have the middle pin.

The service boss at peugeot here said that the injector transistors might be broken and sugested i`d check them first(they are replaceable) and changing them, he said that because between pin 19 and 16,17 should be a resistance, althought the injectors stay open always.

I`m thinking about spliting the loom to pieces and checking everything again and going to an electronist to change the tranzistors.

The relays sound OK as they are but you should be able to use either one in any of the plugs afaik. I haven't got any experience with the injection transistors so can't say if these could be at fault.

Also I wanted to ask you if the canister solenoid and simulation resistor are so important for the ECU and what do they look like.

Those are the only ones that are not connected to the original loom.

I don't know if they need to be connected or not but looking at the haynes they both have wires(84 & 84A) going to the ecu plug at pin 5 & also to the injectors (20R & 20V). The only cars I know that had them fitted had them removed when they were converted to Mi16's. If you haved the canister solenoid and simulation resistor & a spare plug you could try connecting it in & see if that makes anything work. I think the resister will be built into the loom itself & not a plug in one like the injection coding resister.

Actually this is a little more complicated:

"When you put the ignition on, the ignition amplifier send a spark to the sparkplugs...thats why the tachymetric relay opens just for a second when you put the ignition on.

Thats why sometimes when you just put the ignition on the engine makes a tiny explosion - if there still is compresion at the cilinder where the initial spark goes.

Also when you stop the engine there is another spark."

Thats a quote from the peugeot gchief of service.

He's right about the ignition amp sending voltage to the coil & momentarily to the tachy relay to pressurise the fuel rail but the injectors won't be opening afaik so there shouldn't be any explosion because there won't be a spark to ignite it unless the engine is being cranked .

 

Graham.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

I wouldn't get to far into stripping the loom just yet even though we seem to have covered most possibilities for mistakes made during removal & refitting into your car I still think the problem lies with the connections you've done.

 

Graham.

Well where do you recon that the problem is?

The only connections i`ve made are the 2 white and one yellow iirc to the +.

The ignition on wire -2E - ECU pin 27.

The fuel pump wire.

The tachometer.....but thats irrelevant.

The sensors - water temp, oil, batery light.

And that`s it.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Well where do you recon that the problem is?

Isn't that the million dollar question. If we knew that your car should've been running fine by the end of page one.

 

The only connections i`ve made are the 2 white and one yellow iirc to the +.

Thats OK, nothing on this plug needs changing so it should be fine. The wires from this plug should run to the tachymetric relay, injection relay & ecu plug pin 18 directly from the shunt box.

 

The ignition on wire -2E - ECU pin 27.

This wire should be connected before the coil & not directly to the ecu. It runs from the coil to the ignition amp & then to the ecu. Wire #2, from ignition switch / fusebox to the coil, ignition amp & then ecu.

 

Maybe this is where you have wired it up wrongly?

 

The fuel pump wire.

The tachometer.....but thats irrelevant.

The sensors - water temp, oil, batery light.

And that`s it.

Your fuel pump runs doesn't it so that can't be wrong & neither this or any of these sensor connections would cause these problems.

 

Graham.

[eu_andreiutz 0]

This wire should be connected before the coil & not directly to the ecu. It runs from the coil to the ignition amp & then to the ecu. Wire #2, from ignition switch / fusebox to the coil, ignition amp & then ecu.

 

Maybe this is where you have wired it up wrongly?

Graham.

 

The wire is from the loom and it goes first to the ignition amplifier like you said....I linked it to the original brown or black plug.... so I guess that shouldn`t be a problem.

 

If you have any new ideas I am OPEN.

thanks

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

The wire is from the loom and it goes first to the ignition amplifier like you said

It shouldn't go to the ignition amp first, it should go to the coil first, then ignition amp & then ecu.

 

Where is your coil? Inlet mounted or inner wing?

 

Graham.