Mi16 Trouble

[pugman211 0]

Hi guys. I'm new on this forum, but have been reading for few months now.

 

Right, i've just put an alloy block Mi16 in my 309 gti (sorry i know its not 205), and you guys have been great help on the wiring, which im about to undetake!! However, reason for my post is, the Mi16 i've got has got a Lambda sensor on it, infact it had 2, but one was melted and not connected to the loom, so i dont think it is used. But, my 309 is a phase 1, and has no CAT. I know from previous encounter with my scooby, that i cant just unplug the lambda as it messes up the fuelling big time! (i did do a search first)

 

Any ideas as to the best way to approach it??? i was thinking of drilling the down pipe and welding a nut on it, then screw the lambda in to it that way?!?!? Also, i was under the impression that there was only 2 Mi16 versions made. the alloy with 160 bhp and the cast with 150 bhp?? How can i tell which is mine and where would i find the code????

 

Many thanks for any help u can give

 

 

Baz

[taffycrook 2]

Hello, the first thing to sort out is which mi16 engine you have look for a metal tab on the block behind the timing cover it will let you know which mi16 engine you have. If you can't tell alloy from cast iron.

 

It doesn't matter much anyway as you will still have a ball with either.

 

Just place the lambda sensor in the down pipe about 30 inches from the head. You could buy a downpipe with the boss already in place or buy a boss and weld that in.

 

I have done the weld in job on my wideband lambda for setting up carbs and it works just fine.

[pugman211 0]

oh i know its definately the alloy block! can spot that a mile away. Dont know if this makes a difference, but its the model witht the 3 row ECU, and i found the code today, but i've forgotten it. Will post it on tomorrow.

 

Next thing is to get the wiring sorted which should be easy on a phase 1, and sort the exhaust manifold, then see if she fires up! so excited! lol

[pugman211 0]

the only code i can find is on the front of the cylinderhead just above the inlet manifold and its: 1CW9L 000329. And its the Magnesium engine, and I bought it from Pugparts 205. (ebay, and yes i read he is a bad trader after i bought the engine)

[pugman211 0]

Another thing, wire no. 2 - switched positive. (also seen reference to wire 32) does any one know if this wire goes to the engine bay, or does it just stop at the circuit board. Thats the last wire i need to find so i can splice the 2 looms together!

 

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks Baz

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

The code you posted above is more likely to be your engine number imo.

 

Wire #2 & 32a are both switched positives & on the later 205's with the brown multiplug come out of the same connector pin on the plug inthe drivers footwell.

 

Wire #2 should run to the coil but looking at my Haynes for the 309 its marked as CC2 & comes from plug E on the fuse board.

 

I can't find 32a on the 309 loom either unless its marked as CC4 which runs to the tachymetrioc relay from the positive side of the coil.

 

Graham.

[pugman211 0]

funny you should say that, as i found a connection from the tach relay (wire 18 or 1B), but i will double check the coil, cos there is a wire on it which starts CC but cant see the last number!!! And the other wire on the coil was 112 (rev counter)

 

As for the engine code i took off the timing cover, but could not see a plate with code, maybe its because the engine is in the car and it was awkward to see inside??

 

While im on about stuff tho, what is best, the exhaust wedge from QEP??? (which i have heard is good) or a re-angled manifold from PR developments???? both similar in price but im unsure!

[taffycrook 2]

The angle plate is a good bet if the manifold isn't cracked. If its cracked and most are then the re angle is a better bet as you can have it repaired at the same time. Make sure its tig welded not mig welded as I found the mig makes the cracking worse.

[petert 550]

However, reason for my post is, the Mi16 i've got has got a Lambda sensor on it, infact it had 2, but one was melted and not connected to the loom, so i dont think it is used.

 

There's at least five different alloy 16V's when ECU versions are taken into account. If you're using the ECU from the Mi16 you will have to use the lamba sensor as well. Otherwise the ECU will go into fault mode. Check which ECU you have by identifying the last 3 numbers on the box.

 

eg

161

158

167

355 etc.

 

It must be one of the very few alloy Mi16's in the UK with a cat. Most of the later 3 row cars had no cat., and the 355 ECU. The engine code, D6C or DFW, is on a small plate riveted to the head gasket face.

 

Go to your local exhaust shop and buy a lamda sensor bung. They have an M18x1.5 thread. Drill a hole and weld it on.

[pugman211 0]

Yea the code on the ECU is: 0 261 200 161. So i presume it uses a lambda, because the car came with 1 on the loom. Still haven't found the engine code, and i'm now starting to worry its not an Mi16. But it looks like one!?!?!? i need to get a pic of the engine i think and post it for someone to confirm.

 

Thanks for the help though!!

[petert 550]

Look under the front engine mount:

[pugman211 0]

Thanks for the pic Petert!! I found the code in the end, mine is a DFW and i've got a funny feeling its the wimpy version of Mi16! gutted.

 

Hope to get the parts needed to complete the car on weekend, so i'll try and fire her up and she what noises she makes! So long as i get to take it to Pugfest and FCS i'll be happy. Then i can rip the engine out and give it a full rebuild with a better spec.

[pugman211 0]

Ok guys!

 

Because this is my first Mi16 conversion, its wrecking my head, but i'm having so much fun learning myself how to do it!!!! (with the help off you guys!!)

 

didnt get it started today cos i didnt get chance to ge the new ignition barrel, so gutted there!! The only problem i have left to work out is the water cooled oil filter pipework. The Mi16 has the same one as my old 309 8v engine, but the Mi has 2 pipes running to the rad (at the bottom) where as the 8v rad, only has 1 outlet! any ideas?????

 

Then the last 2 problems ive got is, i cant work out which end of the fuel rail is the way in, and where the return is. I know which pipe pumps the fuel and returns on the 309, but having trouble working out which does what on the Mi. 1 end of the fuel rail has a regulator if thats any help?????

 

And the final problem is, where does the brake servo hose go???? On the 8v, it went on the top of the rocker cover, but again cant see anything obvious on the Mi. have tried looking at both 309 and 405 haynes manuals with no avail!!

 

Sorry for the essay, but any help will be much appreciated!

[welshpug 1,622]

And the final problem is, where does the brake servo hose go???? On the 8v, it went on the top of the rocker cover, but again cant see anything obvious on the Mi. have tried looking at both 309 and 405 haynes manuals with no avail!!

 

no it didnt! it went to the intake manifold! cant find any pics to show where it goes on the 1.9 but its gotta be there somewhere!

[PsychoSimon 0]

I think the left hand side of the fuel rail is inlet.

The servo hose goes here.....

Edited March 31, 2007 by PsychoSimon

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

whats the difference between the dfw and ptc engines mines a ptc (took me ages to find the code after some arse, me, sprayed over it lol ) sorry to hijac the thread a litle

[pugman211 0]

Dont worry about hijackin the thread mate!!! Mine says PTC underneath aswell, i think its code for something else!!!! DFW, PTC to be exact. The code of the engine should be in the silver boxes at the top of the plate.

 

Thank you! thank you! thank you!!! though for the above pic! I've worked out the last few pipes (over dinner) I was only looking at the inlet manifold earlier trying to work out what the missing hose was!!!! As for the fuel rail, in that pic, and i'd agree, the fuel enters on the left as u can see the pipe coming from the filter, and will exit on the right via the fuel regulator. This engine i've got has 2 on it for some reason, think thats where i was getting confused!

 

So all i need to work out now is the water oil cooler pipe that goes to the rad.

[welshpug 1,622]

one will be a damper the other the pressure regulator

[pugman211 0]

so the inlet on the rail will be fine, just put the regulator and the damper on the return pipes????

 

 

 

Is the blue circle the regulator then??

[petert 550]

DFW is definitely the low compression version, 9.7:1. But what's the issue? I'd rather have a DFW in good conidition than a knackered D6C. There's several easy methods of increasing the CR without changing the pistons.

 

There's no such thing as a PTC, they all say that. It's either a DFW or a D6C.

 

The other good news is that you'll have a #3 inlet pulley.

Edited March 31, 2007 by petert

[PsychoSimon 0]

Thank you! thank you! thank you!!! though for the above pic!

It's ok

 

And yes the blue circle is the regulator mate

[pugman211 0]

The other good news is that you'll have a #3 inlet pulley.

 

What do you mean by that????

 

And the more i thought i was bothered by my engine being the lower compression version, the more it didn't bother me! Like u say, there are several easy ways of gaining higher CR, but because this car will only be a road car, it won't need the higher CR anyway!

[PsychoSimon 0]

The number three inlet pulley has the best cam timing setting of the lot. For some reason, there are different number pulleys which change the cam timing settings slightly.

 

I've found that the lower cr engines tend to have a tiny bit more down the bottom end. This may be because of the cam pulley, but it is also a natural characteristic of a lower cr engine

[pugman211 0]

cool!!! I have read about the pulley numbers before in other posts!! I think I was being blind as its a sunday morning!!!! lol. I've heard some prefer 3 and 4, whereas other prefer 3 and 3!

 

My main priority at the mo, is to get the engine running, and hopefully there will be no major faults!!! Then i'll get it on the rollers, see what it makes and then start to look into a massive rebuild beginning of next year. (the new baby will take up this year!!)

[PsychoSimon 0]

Fair play.

There's a wealth of knowledge on here anyway if things do go slightly pear shaped so you'lll be fine.

 

Keep us posted about how its going!!