205 1.6 Gti Converting To 1.9 Td

[foreigner 0]

So I am picking my spanking new old 205 1.6 gti dark green colour.

 

As mentioned before about 1.9 td, I REALLY NEED LOTS OF HELP.

 

Few question I have now:

 

- exhaust

- dump valve

- air intake

- intercooler

- brakes

- rev counter

- mounts

- time scale ( can I knock it together over the weekend?)

 

 

ANYTHING WELCOMED

 

I'll post the pictures as I go.

 

 

excuse gramar mistakes and spelling there is T missing somewhere

Edited November 7, 2006 by foreigner

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Brakes & driveshafts; No change needed imo, 205 TD uses same driveshafts & similar brakes.

 

Dump valve; 1.9 TD don't have them fitted as standard afaik so choice is yours.

 

Rev counter; get a set of TD clocks & swap them over or just the rev counter & fit it into your clocks.

 

Air intake; same as 205 or 309 TD, modifed to suit intercooler.

 

Mounts; Standard GTi engine mounts will be fine, uprated if you want.

 

Intercooler; Thay will fit above the head in the standard place afaik but other than that the choice is yours up front.

 

Timescale; How longs a piece of string? It depends on how mechanically skilled you are & if you are devoting every spare minute to the swap.

 

There will be some wiring changes needed so I'd hazard at a week at least once you have everything.

 

Graham.

[Richie-Van-GTi 70 2 Cars]

What are you doing about fuel tank pick up? Other than that its a pretty straight forward conversion, wiring is very basic etc.

From what you have said its a sorrento green gti you are destroying!!! eeek, wait till the purists see this thread

[foreigner 0]

What are you doing about fuel tank pick up? Other than that its a pretty straight forward conversion, wiring is very basic etc.

From what you have said its a sorrento green gti you are destroying!!! eeek, wait till the purists see this thread

Actually just thought about that and I made mistake it's grey colour but I got your point.

 

Explenation:

 

- I like the gti - interior and so on.

- it's suppose to drive well

- and I will run it on veggie oil ( tried and tested with my 306 td)

- and most of all I am nutter

[DTORU 0 1 Cars]

exhaust = Use a 306 TD is a straight fit or a 205 DT but youll ave to mod the downpipe by re angling it. the back half of the 1.6 exhaust is ok you just need to change the downpipe.

 

dump valve = ??? why no advantage but youll need a fitting kit search for the Derv Doctor.

 

air intake = Pipercross or K&N induction kit, im using a piper cross

 

intercooler = use the top mounted 1.9 td one, fits without any mods. I am and it works fine.

 

brakes = 1.6 gti ones are plenty

 

rev counter = use a set 205 of diesel turbo/stdt gauges/clocks runs off the fly wheel sensor instead of the coil like the petrols, may have to mod the loom.

 

mounts = The same as the 205 ( DONT FIT GROUP N MOUNTS!!!!! VIBRATES SOMETHING STUPID, I DID THIS MOD AND THE TOOK IT OFF WAS HORIBLE.

 

time scale = Id give it a week from start to finish m8

 

 

Id did the oposite m8, i converted a 205 DT in to a 205 GTI TD used a 205 1.6 gti phase 2 as a donor car a transfered the interiour and exteriour on to the DT, upped the boost and fueling now its quicker than a 1.6 gti and more economical, lol. Sounds like a tractor crossed with an artic mind.

 

 

Thanks

DTORU

Edited November 7, 2006 by DTORU

[jim21070 2]

What are you doing about fuel tank pick up? Other than that its a pretty straight forward conversion, wiring is very basic etc.

 

You should be OK with the GTi tank but the electric pump will have to come out and be replaced by the diesel pick-up. The fuel lines will be OK but you'll have to use a proper diesel filter in place of the petrol filter unless you are using a late TD engine with the filter mounted on the thermostat housing. You'll also need to have a priming bulb if you are using the later filter. The older bulkhead mounted filters have a priming pump built in. The diesel filter is very important to prevent foreign matter and especially water reaching the injector pump.

 

The proper diesel fuel lines have a long loop in them that runs closely parallel with the exhaust. This acts as a fuel heater of sorts so may be worth doing for veggie running. Also, only the Bosch pump is fully OK on veg oil. The Lucas CAV is a bit dodgy. I'm sure our resident veggie specialist, Brainfluid will soon be joing this thread

 

As said, most of the job is straightforward. Electrics especially so. You will however, have to wire in a glowplug controller.

 

The radiator in a TD is identical except that it has two fans whereas the GTi only has one. It will be no problem to fit a second fan as the cowl is the same.

 

If you use a top-mounted intercooler you'll need to duct air to it. A 205 Auto bonnet might well be needed to achieve that. A top-mounted intercooler with restricted airflow becomes an interheater. Go for a front-mounted one if you can. The one from a Xantia TD may well prove good and it's a biggie.

 

What engine are you planning to use?

 

Why a dump valve? A diesel is always WOT (Wide Open Throttle) effectively so there is no turbo stall associated with throttle closure on a petrol engine and therefore a dump valve is not required unless you like the sound they make

 

Good luck with this. A thread to watch with great interest...

[foreigner 0]

Thanx guys.

 

I just pick it up, parked and started thinking.

 

Should I or shouldn't I????

 

-Great idea with fuel lines. I might put it next to exhaust.

- Bosch pump and veggie is the best couple, I never tried Lucas.

- I was planning to get Air Scoop or two to the bonnet or something homemade to look like it's got huge V8.

 

 

to be continued ...

[Guest BrainFluid]

the DT, upped the boost and fueling now its quicker than a 1.6 gti and more economical, lol. Sounds like a tractor crossed with an artic mind.

Thanks

DTORU

 

Fighting talk if ever I heard it

 

Now I'm all in favour of 205 super diesels belive you me, but I dont think my 1.6 would lose out on my Td even if the Td had a 306 intercooler on it wheres the 37BHP comming from to match the bhp of my 1.6? Sure you could claim that if your engine was a 1.9, yours is 1.7 isnt it?

 

Now I aint saying your wrong DTORU I'm just saying my 1.6 would beat your Td Har har

 

(I'ld rather compare my TD to yours tho' really, and your beats mine hands down )

[Guest BrainFluid]

The proper diesel fuel lines have a long loop in them that runs closely parallel with the exhaust. This acts as a fuel heater of sorts so may be worth doing for veggie running. Also, only the Bosch pump is fully OK on veg oil. The Lucas CAV is a bit dodgy. I'm sure our resident veggie specialist, Brainfluid will soon be joing this thread

 

 

Indeed I will.

 

Whilst being a little bit wary of trolls of late, I have been smoking a little weed so it could be that...

 

 

Yes back to the thread, urm, you said 'tried and tested' with veg oil so jolly well done, carry on and I'll spare you the sermons Any questions, ask.

 

 

 

Recently I definatly have found the heat exchanger on the XUD, it's a coolant heated sandwich plate, near the water pump, which is on every XUD, ha ha if only I knew that 2 years ago!

Edited November 7, 2006 by BrainFluid

[DTORU 0 1 Cars]

Fighting talk if ever I heard it

 

Now I'm all in favour of 205 super diesels belive you me, but I dont think my 1.6 would lose out on my Td even if the Td had a 306 intercooler on it wheres the 37BHP comming from to match the bhp of my 1.6? Sure you could claim that if your engine was a 1.9, yours is 1.7 isnt it?

 

Now I aint saying your wrong DTORU I'm just saying my 1.6 would beat your Td Har har

 

(I'ld rather compare my TD to yours tho' really, and your beats mine hands down )

 

 

Its quicker than a stock G plate ldt edition 1.6 gti miami blue, i know this a my m8 has one and we compared them, i also know that im running 83.5bhp at the wheels as the car s been on the rollers! Ive also got loads more tourque than a 1.6 petrol. I know the 1.6 gti was suposed to produce 115bhp @ crank but just take wear and stuff in to account you probably 105-110, my derv produces a true 110 @ crank so there for its 70% more than likly quickers than yours!

 

Sorry you loose!

 

Thanks

DTORU

[Guest BrainFluid]

Sorry you loose!

 

Not a chance pal!

Edited November 7, 2006 by BrainFluid

[DTORU 0 1 Cars]

Building a 1.9 Xantia motor to the folowing specs:

 

Compleate Rebuild All New Genuine Parts i.e Shells etc.

Ported,Gasflowed n skimmed Head

Piper Fast Road Cam

ARP Rod Bolts

 

With The Following:

 

Turbo Techincs Hybrid Turbo (Running 2 Bar/30psi Boost)

Cosworth FMIC

OMP Paddle Clutch (MI16 Group N Clutch)

Water Injection

Nitrous Oxide (Nos Progressive Controlled +100bhp)

Forge Motorsport Race Actuator

Blitz Electronic Boost Controller

S16 Gear Box

 

Building a Turbo Diesel 205 That Would be as Quick if not quicker than a MI powered 205 but with loads more touque! 160+bhp with nos 250bhp!

 

Engine is stripped and i have 95% of the parts to rebuild it just waiting on back ordered parts! hoping to get in built for december and in by jan.

Want to take it round the track at French Car Show 07!. Watch out for the DERV smoke.

 

Thanks

DTORU

Edited November 7, 2006 by DTORU

[Guest BrainFluid]

Hey, I fully Admire your quest for Diesel 205 Power DTORU I'll be joining you my self one of these days! Its hard for us like Gti's love 205's but crave diesel too. I would like very much to be quicker than 1.6's on veg oil but with 'veg smoke' coming out the back.

 

But shurly it will take a larger XUD than the 1.7 in your car, to beat my 1.6?! With your next 1.9 engine sure I could just about belive it.

 

 

Reboring the bores to 88mm is it? 87 on the safe side? That would be the icing on the cake.

Edited November 7, 2006 by BrainFluid

[welshpug 1,622]

you dont want an S16 box in there, unless you really want to be cruising down the motorway at 80mph doing 4k which is peak power!!!!

 

stick with a derv box.

[Guest BrainFluid]

Stick with a derv box

 

Yeah, dont you want to abuse all that torque right through the range on a longer box?

 

 

Edit: All that gear changing would be a right waste of boost too, no?

Edited November 7, 2006 by BrainFluid

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Yeah, dont you want to abuse all that torque right through the range on a longer box?

Edit: All that gear changing would be a right waste of boost too, no?

you dont want an S16 box in there, unless you really want to be cruising down the motorway at 80mph doing 4k which is peak power!!!!

 

stick with a derv box.

An S16 gearbox would be shorter on a diesel, like welshpug says, stick with a derv box.

 

Graham.

[DTORU 0 1 Cars]

Umm i was going to use the S16 Box as from experementing with the 1.8td motor i can remove the revlimiter and with the fitment of a pier cam can get the peak power to 6000rpm and redline at 6500rpm thats why i thought of a S16 box. I know this as its been on the rollers and is in this months performance Gti mag now known as French Cars.

 

Ok then ill let you in to a peugeot secret, when peugeot first produced the 205 dt they had to de tune it as it was out performing the 1.6GTI thats some info i was told by my local pug dealer??.

As i say i beeten a 205 1.6 gti and a ford fieta 1.6 Si Zetec so aslong as yours its stock (Back box and K&N mods only) i would beat you, you may have the slight top end advantage, the derv tops out at 115, but i would whoop you backside on acceleration.

Thanks

DTORU

Edited November 8, 2006 by DTORU

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Ok then ill let you in to a peugeot secret, when peugeot first produced the 205 dt they had to de tune it as it was out performing the 1.6GTI thats some info i was told by my local pug dealer??.

What did they do to de-tune it then & is it an easy reversal job to get the power it had pre-de tune?

 

Graham.

[jim21070 2]

What did they do to de-tune it then & is it an easy reversal job to get the power it had pre-de tune?

 

Graham.

 

At a guess, they detuned it simply by not using an intercooler.

 

For the short time I had a 205STDT I was well impressed by how it went and can quite believe it can outpace a 1.6GTi, especially when you consider how well a 1.9TD will tow a much heavier 405 or Xantia along.

 

I reckon adding an intercooler will make a significant improvement. Anyone tried?

 

I've laso heard rumours that a NA cam in a TD makes an improvement but have no factual basis for that.

[foreigner 0]

Hey, I fully Admire your quest for Diesel 205 Power DTORU I'll be joining you my self one of these days! Its hard for us like Gti's love 205's but crave diesel too. I would like very much to be quicker than 1.6's on veg oil but with 'veg smoke' coming out the back.

 

But shurly it will take a larger XUD than the 1.7 in your car, to beat my 1.6?! With your next 1.9 engine sure I could just about belive it.

Reboring the bores to 88mm is it? 87 on the safe side? That would be the icing on the cake.

Why does your engine smoke?

Mine did too initially, but then I added antismoke addittive to the oil and all the smoke stopped.

 

Tell me more about reboring 1.9 engine to bigger size because that's what I wanted to do.

[foreigner 0]

Ok then, lots of excelent replies.

 

Question about the gearbox.

 

In a very simple English please. What is the difference :

 

1. I keep original 1.6 gti gearbox and stick 1.9 td on it

2. I keep the 1.9td gearbox.

[foreigner 0]

I just had a panick attack.

 

How do I find out what typew of engine I got in.

 

G reg 1.6 gti - please tell me it's XU engine.

[jim21070 2]

I just had a panick attack.

 

How do I find out what typew of engine I got in.

 

G reg 1.6 gti - please tell me it's XU engine.

 

Yes, you can breath easy again. it's an XU an XU5JA in fact..

 

The XU and XUD engines are close members of the same family...

Edited November 8, 2006 by jim21070

[welshpug 1,622]

Ok then, lots of excelent replies.

 

Question about the gearbox.

 

In a very simple English please. What is the difference :

 

1. I keep original 1.6 gti gearbox and stick 1.9 td on it

2. I keep the 1.9td gearbox.

 

about a 1000 rpm is the difference.

[jim21070 2]

Ok then, lots of excelent replies.

 

Question about the gearbox.

 

In a very simple English please. What is the difference :

 

1. I keep original 1.6 gti gearbox and stick 1.9 td on it

2. I keep the 1.9td gearbox.

 

1. The poor old diesel will be most unhappy, being near it's redline most of the time and a bit breathless. Acceleration will be great but driving it any distance will be a nightmare.

 

2. Yes, that is how it is supposed to be. Makes best use of the power characteristics of a diesel engine.