Group A 8v 1900 Engine Specs

[Guest Megster]

I'm looking for more power for next season, and I've been offered a fresh Group A spec engine for an almost too good to be true price. What kind of spec should this engine have to qualify as a Group A item? Also what kind of power can I expect from it on twin 45s?

 

Before anyone suggests fitting a 16 valver instead, my championship class rules prohibits this. I have to stick with the 8 V engine.

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

AJ

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

The Group A homologation documents are in the www.PSOOC.com members area if you are very keen to see what group A spec is (the whole car, not just the engine). As for BHP, I would think you would be looking towards 160 to 170bhp if it is done right, and on the right ignition etc. I have seen 240bhp out of a 205 8v engine but there we are talking big bucks and throttle bodies

[PumaRacing 1]

I have seen 240bhp out of a 205 8v engine but there we are talking big bucks and throttle bodies

 

Through what colour of tinted spectacles did you see this much bhp?

[SimonJ 2]

Gp A engines were reputed to be about 180bhp in forest spec and 185-190 in tarmac spec.

[Bam 0]

hi,

 

a friend of me has this engine in his 205 gti -210hp.

the valvesteems are 9mm,inlet valve diameter has 42-43mm.

double valve springs (it looks like titan)

inlet on head is bored,polished.

2x 45weber and 25L@/100km

 

mik

[pdd144c 0]

Through what colour of tinted spectacles did you see this much bhp?

 

The same ones you use Dave I've seen 3 8v lumps make over 220bhp in recent months and then do very well on the track.

[Owain1602 0]

240 is too much. I dont see that happening.

Take a Millington engine for example, YB based, then modified by cosworth for more power, then modified again for what would be considered maximum power from it, at around £25,000. That will be producing around the 300-310bhp in rull race from a 2.4 or 2.5 16valve,and what is considered a very expensive engine. Or a SBD Vauxhall XE, they use a stroker kit to get 2.4 and you will see high 200s from this highly tuned, expensive engine.

So how 240bhp from a 1.9 8v is possible im not sure.

Although if i recall the Maxi was around 240bhp from a 1.6, but again it was a 16valve.

[PumaRacing 1]

The same ones you use Dave I've seen 3 8v lumps make over 220bhp in recent months and then do very well on the track.

 

Please post some dyno sheets then because the XU cylinder head doesn't have the valve size or the flow for anything remotely near 240 bhp.

 

In fact I doubt if any of these engines went on an accurate engine dyno they'd break 200 bhp.

[pdd144c 0]

Please post some dyno sheets then because the XU cylinder head doesn't have the valve size or the flow for anything remotely near 240 bhp.

 

In fact I doubt if any of these engines went on an accurate engine dyno they'd break 200 bhp.

 

I'll see what I can do on the dyno sheet front Dave. Will again bring up the age old arguement about whos rollers/dynos are accurate! Just out of interest, what is the best peak power and torque figures you have seen for a 8v XU engine on an accurate dyno?

[Bam 0]

have idea...dad from a friend was driven group a...

i'm not 100% sure (max lift)...

but here are the specs of the cam:

312° 106° 13,8mm - 15mm 5,6mm 49°/81 °

 

fact is...head clearence should be corrected . (lift of cam)

 

mik

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I know of another 3 8v engines (Along with the same 3 as PDD's)making this sort of power, A couple run of various RR and all making the same power within limits of the day, You need to have a look at a Longam or Sordemo head, Work of art in porting.

The only thing I need to add is they are either 1998cc or 2070cc

[Guest Megster]

Thanks folks.

 

My brother in law owns an ex-Bobby Fryer Williams Clio sprint/Hillclimb car with 230 bhp. It has a Sodemo engine and a receipt for £14,000 of engine work alone - dog box was an additional £8000! Total build cost excluding the initial purchase price of the car (it was built from a brand new first edition showroom car) - a staggerring £64K!!!!

 

Its not unusual now to speak to Escort Mk1/Mk2 owners in Sprint/Hillclimb paddocks about engines that have cost HUGE amounts of money. This is what were up against these days - and it's a testament that the little 8v 205 can still cut it in competition against them with significantly less power.

 

Anyone know anymore about the Group A engine?

 

AJ

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Yer but ask them to reveal their engine sizes! I run in the 1.4-2 litre Modified production class. 99% of Escorts now use the 205 block from a Sierra which isnt legal for them and when fitted with the correct head is normally 2040cc minimum. Most escorts I know running in the 2 litre class are 2.2 or even 2.4 litre! Thats why they are putting out so much power. Bit annoying really but then now especially in the South West there are 230bhp+ 16v 205's and Astras that are showing them the way

Edited September 9, 2006 by VisaGTi16v

[PumaRacing 1]

Yer but ask them to reveal their engine sizes! I run in the 1.4-2 litre Modified production class. 99% of Escorts now use the 205 block from a Sierra which isnt legal for them and when fitted with the correct head is normally 2040cc minimum.

 

The 205 block has exactly the same bore (90.81mm) as any other 2 litre Pinto block so how can this possibly affect engine capacity? Also what has the head got to do with it as that doesn't even enter into the engine capacity calculation?

[Dazza 4]

The perticular car Henry makes a note of , a 240 bhp 8 valver is by far the finest 205 ive ever seen and ive been around these cars since 1989 and ive seen them all come and go some good some bad and some rediculous .

I have never seen such a high standard of build quality or presentation in a competition car as this one and this car is seriously quick and i do mean shockingly so it sounds and goes like a superbike and i wouldnt have believed it had i not seen or heard it for myself ,this is the quickest peugeot ive ever seen by far .I think what surprised me was the charachteristics of the way this engine revved it just goes from 1500 rpm's to 10000 rpm's in no time ,ive never seen any engine rev so quickly ever ,whats been done to this engine iam unsure but i would bet that there are a whole host of extremely specially developed components in there and it does rev to 10000 rpm's but the owner has limited this to 8500 rpm's for now .

Iam surprised that the other regulars whom are on this site havent mentioned it as they were there as gobsmacked as i watching this 205 tear the tarmac up.

As for the costs of this car and engine ,two words spring to mind, telephone numbers .

I would like to add that iam new on the drivers forum and iam experienced in building and restoring these cars and classics , so i do understand these great cars well .

Thanks for making me welcome .

Edited September 9, 2006 by Dazza

[bales 1]

The perticular car Henry makes a note of , a 240 bhp 8 valver is by far the finest 205 ive ever seen and ive been around these cars since 1989 and ive seen them all come and go some good some bad and some rediculous .

I have never seen such a high standard of build quality or presentation in a competition car as this one and this car is seriously quick and i do mean shockingly so it sounds and goes like a superbike and i wouldnt have believed it had i not seen or heard it for myself ,this is the quickest peugeot ive ever seen by far .I think what surprised me was the charachteristics of the way this engine revved it just goes from 1500 rpm's to 10000 rpm's in no time ,ive never seen any engine rev so quickly ever ,whats been done to this engine iam unsure but i would bet that there are a whole host of extremely specially developed components in there and it does rev to 10000 rpm's but the owner has limited this to 8500 rpm's for now .

Iam surprised that the other regulars whom are on this site havent mentioned it as they were there as gobsmacked as i watching this 205 tear the tarmac up.

As for the costs of this car and engine ,two words spring to mind, telephone numbers .

I would like to add that iam new on the drivers forum and iam experienced in building and restoring these cars and classics , so i do understand these great cars well .

Thanks for making me welcome .

 

 

I'm not being cynical but I wouldn't of thought it possible to actually flow enough air through an 8v engine to even rev to 10000 RPM even if everything was uprated enough to be able to withstand that high revs.

 

I mean surely with only 2 valves and a maximum size that you can fit into the bore then it just ain't possible to physically get that volume of air through the head.

 

I think sometimes it can be misleading as to how fast a car goes with certain amount of power, at some hillclimbs I have seen some stripped out 205's and other hatches that look incredibly fast, but when you speak to their owners they are all around the 190-200bhp mark. Its just lightweight really that makes the biggest difference.

 

Apart from when I have seen an Audi S2 and an Audi quattro that compete that have erm......lots of horsepower, I think 800bhp was being bandied about for the quattro!

[Dazza 4]

I would agree with your reply bud ,i to have seen the cars that make you raise an eye brow in surprise ,again i dont know the extremeties of this 8v engine or if it has the 240 bhp ,if it has i would expect it to be at 10000 rpm's as to achieve this sort of power .Ive been in 2 x 205's both 8 valvers with just over 200 bhp and they were rediculous to drive as they were very aggresive and all or nothing performer's .

I know Jon Mergie's seen this car and has pictures of it ,hopefully he can post them for you to see but one thing i am sure that this car will surprise even the most hardy car fans when they see it in the flesh and see it go woooowwwww it goes !!!!!!.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Through what colour of tinted spectacles did you see this much bhp?

Anticipated response.

 

The same ones you use Dave I've seen 3 8v lumps make over 220bhp in recent months and then do very well on the track.

 

Nice retort!! lol.

 

There is an engine dyno graph with the figures on it but the owner is not the sort to publish it on the internet to attract comments like the top one.

 

Full spec is not known as the well known engine builder said "if you need anything, then come back to me and I will sort it" as he was not going to release a full spec sheet, as I am sure you wouldn't if you had been able to achieve the same Dave.

 

I have some video somewhere of this car from Pugfest this year, but get the feeling the accuracy of my video camera will be questioned!!

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

i remember the brother of the owner of the 240bhp 8v posting on psooc saying it was a longmans engine, and the liners alone were £800 each or something like that

 

I want one!

[Rally Slag 0]

i want to build a 200bhp 8V for my 205 project, so this topic seems rather interesting to me. just out of curiosity, does anyone know roughly what spec i would need to to build it? is that 240bhp car at the wheel or fly, i was hoping for 200bhp at the wheels. I know its possible if you have the money (at the moment i dont) but nothing is impossible. My boss used to do rallying, he had a friend with an 8V pushing out just over 200bhp but hasnt spoke to him for years. I told my boss that getting more than 180bhp out of the 1.9 isnt possible and he told me rubbish. I know it can be done, i just need some leading in the right direction. was thinkin something like this for the bottom end, not sure on the head work though.

 

2.0 forged high compression pistons and liners (possibly bigger if need be)

steel crank

steel rods

billet flywheel

ally crank pulley

lightend and balanced bottom end

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Puma: Im no engine expert, just relaying what I hear from owners of them around the paddocks. I presume that size happens after a rebore and head skimming etc when building up their highly expensive engines and ive never heard of one being under 2000cc in sprints and hillclimbs. Its illegal for the class anyway as it was never in a mk1/2 escort so breaks other rules

[TT205 42]

I'm also interested in the spec of these 220-240 BHP 8 Valvers and whether it is purely down to the increased displacement mentioned?!

 

I Hillclimb and run a 205 with a Longmans engine on throttle bodies with maniflow manifold, fully mapped fuel and ignition that was fully rebuilt with ZERO miles on the clock. Previously this engine was used in the Castle Coombe race series.

 

It IS to be fair a 1905 NOT a 1998cc or 2070cc

 

We originally ran it with a 'silly' race cam but have replaced this with something more sensible to (successfully) get more torque without losing too much outright power.

 

However, we have no-where near the horse power being discussed here and realistically there is little else that could be done to this engine and still run pump fuel

 

????????????

 

Dave

[boombang 2]

the XU cylinder head doesn't have the valve size or the flow for anything remotely near 240 bhp

According to above if they won't flow for 240bhp then increased displacement is only going to give a lower volumetric efficiency due to underfilling cylinders.

 

Thats assuming Mr Baker is correct in my quote.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

The quickest road going 8v 205 in the South East has a Longman 1905cc engine in it and although he has never said the exact power the general opinion is that its just nudging 200. Ive never heard of a more powerful 8v one. This bloke is quite well off and the engine would have had just about everything possible done to it

[brianthemagical 1]

The quickest road going 8v 205 in the South East has a Longman 1905cc engine in it and although he has never said the exact power the general opinion is that its just nudging 200. Ive never heard of a more powerful 8v one. This bloke is quite well off and the engine would have had just about everything possible done to it

 

just because he has had everything done to it doesn't mean it will be as powerfull as possible. it depends what spec he was after i.e reving it's nut's of to make hp or a better torque curve. as i think puma racing will agree it's the development of that engine in particular and the knowledge of the builder that gets the maximum out of the engine, so it might not be the maximum for an 8v. i think.