Heads Off.

[Guest BrainFluid]

Got the head off (yay) man that left hand exaust bolt was a bugger to get at!

 

I'm going to take it over to the skimmers tommorow and see what they have to say about it. Can anyone tell me;

 

1: How much should I strip the head for the cheapest price and should I do this after taking it to the skimmers to see if indeed it can be skimmed.

 

2: Could someone reccomend a gasket suppliers and would I be better off getting just a gasket or a full blown kit?

 

Thanks again,

 

Nathan.

[Jonmurgie 2]

1. Really depends on who's going to do the work, have a chat with the company that's doing it and see what's best for them. In theory it's going to be cheaper the more work you do yourself.

 

2. Just get any gasket you like from your prefered automotive supplies place, they are all much a muchness so I wouldn't worry about it

[Guest BrainFluid]

Thanks man.

 

Think I should buy just a gasket or one of the kits? Eurocar parts quotes about a tenner more for the kit than just the gasket. Not that I've any idea what else comes with the kit!

 

Nate.

[Rom 0]

Thanks man.

 

Think I should buy just a gasket or one of the kits? Eurocar parts quotes about a tenner more for the kit than just the gasket. Not that I've any idea what else comes with the kit!

 

Nate.

 

A head Gasket kit will contain manifold gaskets,rocker cover,oil stem seals,thermostat housing,camshaft seals etc. Defineatley worth getting over just the head.

As long as the plugs/valves arnt protruding ,the head can be skimmed with them inplace. I normally just whip cams/buckets out. Unless i intend on changing the stem seals etc. Otherwise they can be left in.

 

A Kit will not include head bolts,and ofc u should change the cam belt also.

[Jonmurgie 2]

Oh yeah defo go for the 'kit' as you can then replace all the other top end seals (well worth doing). New headbolts is a good idea as well

[Guest BrainFluid]

Thought that I'ld take a couple of pics of both the faces of the head and the block.

 

Seen as this is the first head that I've took off can I ask your opinion that everything looks like it should?

 

This is the block face. I take it that that is th TDC position? What does that stand for and the rust is normal yes?

 

And this is the heads face.

 

This is the heads face at another angle. I was surprised to see that the two middle valves are sticking out a bit, maby I turned it a bit as I was taking it off!

 

And! sorry for the ammount of questions. I'm going to have to take the manifold with the cute little turbo off at the very least arent I?

 

Thank you.

 

Nate.

[PumaRacing 1]

No the rust isn't normal. There shouldn't be any. Water has got into the bores and not been immediately cleaned out, dried and sprayed with WD40. The bores and rings might well be knackered by now but it's hard to tell from a pic.

[Guest BrainFluid]

No the rust isn't normal. There shouldn't be any. Water has got into the bores and not been immediately cleaned out, dried and sprayed with WD40. The bores and rings might well be knackered by now but it's hard to tell from a pic.

 

Oh brother!

 

Sweet mother of moses!

 

What do I do now!?

 

Suggestions?

 

Closer photo numero uno.

 

Closer photo numero, um, two.

[Rom 0]

Is the cam still in the head ?

U should be able to push that valve up,as the cam is the only thing that holds it open. Yes the manifold will have to come off! Ideally, u want to make it as easy as possible to be machined. A few plugs and valves are ok, aslong as they dont protrud past the face of the head.

But lumps of manifold and turbos are a no no

[Guest BrainFluid]

Thanks for the info RKKRom I think your also suggesting that I take the cam out so that the valve heads vill all sit flush with the head. The good news is that after stripping it down (bar the cam as of yet) and going over the face with a steel ruler and a 0.07 feeler I cannot find anywhere where the feeler will go through, so maybe a skim is not even needed, but I'll check whith a professinal first!

 

The Bad news is what Puma told me about the rust:

 

 

 

No the rust isn't normal. There shouldn't be any. Water has got into the bores and not been immediately cleaned out, dried and sprayed with WD40. The bores and rings might well be knackered by now but it's hard to tell from a pic.

 

Oh brother!

 

Holy mother of moses!

 

What do I do now!?

 

 

Closer photo numero uno.

 

Closer photo numero, um, two.

 

 

I guess that I'ld better give them bores a good gentle clean huh!?

 

 

Buuuut. How can I tell if a clean is going to do the job. How can I tell if they are indeed Knackered! Do the closer pics help?

 

Hehe. Looks like Ive opened a can of worms here!

 

Nathan.

[PumaRacing 1]

Pics don't really help. It's what's under the rust that matters, whether the bores are pitted or not or if it's just surface rust although it does look quite bad. I'm guessing you took the head off, water from around the gasket ran into the bores and then it got left for quite a while. At least you won't make the same mistake again. I've lost count of the engines I've seen ruined by the same thing including one of my race engines by the car owner's new supposedly professional mechanic who actually didn't know his arse from his elbow. Not only did he leave the water in he taped the top of the block up with tank tape so it couldn't evaporate either. By the time I'd refurbished the head and sent it back the bores were scrap.

 

When a head is removed from any engine the bores need to be immediately checked for water ingress, any that's in there must be mopped up with paper towel or rag, the pistons turned over a couple of times to spread water sitting on the top ring back up the bore, mop that up, repeat, ideally blow out with an airline too and then spray everything with water repellent like WD40 or Duck oil, turn the pistons again to spread that around and then cover the block with a towel (NOT plastic or tape) to stop crap getting in.

[Guest BrainFluid]

Bugger!

 

In my Defence the photos were took an hour after I took the head off.

 

I bought the car as a non runner with the head gasket needing doing and thought that I would try my hand at it.

 

The kid that I did buy the car off also bought the car as a non runner with the head doing, which he did himself and I got to admit that while I was taking the whole thing apart I became more and more suspicious about his skills ie I doubt that he had a torque wrench, many of the bolts / nuts were under torqued / over torqued. Like the head bolts for example. One of the inlet manifolds bolts was missing too.

 

I'm guessing that thats why his repair failed in the first place! Hey, could the water not have got in there when the head blew? Or would that only of been in the bores that were near the blown bit of the gasket? It was stood for 8 weeks after it did blow.

 

Anyways, the only thing I can do is give them a good clean and see what state they are in under the rust does anyone have any pics or a site address that I could see what pitting etc that I should be looking out for?

 

Worse case senario theres plenty of engine bits and bobs that I could sell anlong with the dump valve and boost meter that I could use to fund getting a used engine.

 

Thank you very Much for all your help and advice puma. Thank god that some of us actually do have there elbows and arses in the right place. Were all sitting on our funny bones to start with huh!

 

Nathan.

[PumaRacing 1]

OK not your fault then. The water would have got in when the gasket blew and being sat for several weeks has allowed it to rust. All you can do is clean it up and see what the bores look like.

[gti_al 1]

Here are some pics of my old engine. (taken by my helper on a crappy phone camera)

 

At least it isn't as bad as that one! I bought that with a blown headgasket, but once the head came off it was clear that it needed a new engine. (it had been stood full of water for over six months)

 

Good luck.

[Guest BrainFluid]

Thanks Al. Good to read that thread. I'm hoping that there is a good chance that I might just get away with it...

 

After 4 hours of elbow grease this is what the bores look like.

 

Piccy 1

 

Piccy 2

 

Piccy 3

 

I can give it more elbow greasing but just thought it was time to stop to eat and drink tea

 

So. Whats the verdict so far?

 

Nate.

[Guest BrainFluid]

Okay Okay, so I forgot that you can search for images on google.

 

Done a search on pitting, not that there are that many pics of pitting in metal but I think that in my own amature opinion that my bores are not pitted.

 

I do still welcome a proffesional opinion on how clean I need to get them bores before putting a head back on.

 

Oh, theres a place in glasgow that will skim my head for £35 with the injectors glow plugs and cam out. Pretty happy about that. Seems reasonable!

 

Thanks for everones help once again, If you lot were not here I hate to think about the mess that I would most likely have gotten myself into!

 

Nate.

[Guest AlasdairCM]

Hey, i'm doing the same job at the mo myself, but can't get the inlet manifold off or undo the head bolts. I've got the T55 bit, but can't undo them at all.

 

Help! Please

 

Alasdair

[Rom 0]

What are u using to undo them ? Ull need a big 1/2" breaker bar really, there firkin tight.

[joelpsmith 1]

Hey, i'm doing the same job at the mo myself, but can't get the inlet manifold off or undo the head bolts. I've got the T55 bit, but can't undo them at all.

 

Help! Please

 

Alasdair

 

 

if you use a breaker bar like this then it should be quite easy. Worth the money to undo bolts with high torque

[dead205 0]

Just to comment on the Gaskets - My local engineer who does most of my engine work for me said that there is definatly a difference in the quality of headgasket. I threw my FAI gasket away (He said he'd known these to fail quite quickly) in favour of one he uses regulary and has never had any issues with (Brand name escapes me now).

 

Might be a load of cobblers but I suppose like anything else some makes will be better than others

 

Mark

[Guest BrainFluid]

Just to comment on the Gaskets - My local engineer who does most of my engine work for me said that there is definatly a difference in the quality of headgasket.

 

Yeah...Thats what I was trying to ascertain! Since I asked one of my mates saw the gasket that used to be squished in between my head/block and he commented on how it looked like a s*it gasket.

 

Surely there must be good and bad gaskets and I wanna know so I can go out and spent my ill gotten gainson one of the good brands!

 

Hey Alasdair! Good luck on the old head gasketing! Like the man says a breakers bar will help you no end wot with the laws of phyics and all... What ever you do, dont start hitting a shorter bar with a hammer trying to undo them or you might end up with a sore hand or a pranged head or a broken ratchet/bar and even if your really unlucky a sheared head bolt.

 

Nate.

[dead205 0]

Will try to have a look tomorrow to see if I can find the make for you.

[Guest AlasdairCM]

Thanks guys, gonna have a go at this now, although haven't got a breaker bar. Might ask the garage on the corner if they've got one.

 

But how do I remove the inlet manifold? I've undone all the bolts and disconnected everything but it won't move???

 

Alasdair

[MartinM 0]

<<I've undone all the bolts and disconnected everything but it won't move???>>

Been there - done that

 

...there's a secret metal strap that holds the underneath of the manifold to the front of the block. You need to undo it! Either find it by blindly feeling underneath, or whipping the radiator out to make easy sight/access. I'd recommend the latter...

[Guest AlasdairCM]

Ok, gonna have a look for that, thanks

 

Also how do I remove the camshaft cover? can't seem to shift it at all.

 

Thanks

 

Alasdair