Emerald Problems :(

[Dream Weaver 2]

Not tried yet, the bloody leaking exp tank is causing hassles. Been up since 5am (took the mrs to the airport to go to New York with work, lucky lady ) so started taking the tank out this morning.

 

Finishing work in an hour or so, so will remove the exp tank and fix the leak then try with the starting issues again. I may actually fit the exhaust system first this arvo, just need the fitting kit from the factors.

 

First test is the digital sensor setting, if that dont work then the coil, and finally swap the CAS wires around. If it still doesnt work after that i;m stumped.

[Super Josh 4]

I thought that if you had the wires round the wrong way then the timing would be out by a very small amount, as the ECU would be receiving the timing pulses slightly out of phase. Certainly not enough to stop the car from starting or the ECU from registering the timing pulses. My money is on ECU 'Main Trigger' set incorrectly or the wiring/CAS sensor being faulty.

 

 

Josh

[Dream Weaver 2]

Fixed the coolant leak hopefully, so will try starting it up again later on today.

 

Haven't managed to fit the exhaust though - I need the bolts/springs that tie the centre section to the manifold but I had to saw through them when I removed it and now I cant find any replacements

[taylorspug 7]

Pop down your friendly Pug dealer and get a exhaust fitting kit, they are only £10-15.

[Dream Weaver 2]

I went to the local motor factors who is cheap as chips (got 25Litres of de-ionised water for £7, could barely carry it ).

 

They had the fitting kits with springs for about £3, made by Arvin, but they were way too small for my Pugspares manifold thing. The bolts I need go through the end of the centre pipe and connect into the Y section on the end of the manifold. Bolt is about 10mm thick, 200mm long and has 13 or 15mm nuts.

 

The Arvin packs they had had really small bolts, and 8mm nuts or something.

Edited November 30, 2005 by Dream Weaver

[Dream Weaver 2]

Just tried it again with the pickup changed to digital and still nothing.

 

Will try changing the coilpack wiring around next to see if that helps, have to do it in stages due to work and it being bloody cold in the garage.

[Dream Weaver 2]

OK swapped the coil cylinder wires around and thats had no effect

 

Just got the multimeter on the coil, and with the ignition switched on all 3 terminals are ashowing 12v. Dont know if they should all be showing that though or not.

 

Last try is to swap the CPS wires around and see if that has any effect, after that i'm totally stumped.

[Dream Weaver 2]

Right, just swapped the wires round in the crank sensor wiring and still no joy.

 

Coilpack is getting 12v, crank sensor is getting 5v from the ECU, TPS is working, fuel pump/supply is working but still no green light and no engine rotation.

 

Anyone any other ideas? I've emailed Emerald but it usually takes them ages to reply.

 

The crank sensor was brand new, so doubt thats at fault.

 

I'm stumped now.

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Right, just swapped the wires round in the crank sensor wiring and still no joy.

 

Coilpack is getting 12v, crank sensor is getting 5v from the ECU, TPS is working, fuel pump/supply is working but still no green light and no engine rotation.

 

Anyone any other ideas? I've emailed Emerald but it usually takes them ages to reply.

 

The crank sensor was brand new, so doubt thats at fault.

 

I'm stumped now.

 

Better to ring Dave W in the morning you can get him around 9:30-10:00am.

 

Swapping the wires on the crank sensor will do bugger all as we did this on Trev's S16 and the car still fired up...

[DrSeuss 0]

Ok, firstly, the coil is an output. What you need to do first is establish why the emerald isn't seeing the cranking signal.

 

Take it one step at a time and break down your problem. What does emerald need to see the engine is running.

 

Check everything twice. Does emerald have any onboard diagnostics? like fault code reads?

[Dream Weaver 2]

When I say the coil is getting 12v, I mean being supplied 12v from the power board to the +ve terminal, therefore I know its not my wiring loom at fault.

 

I presume the cranking signal comes from the crank sensor, but I need to find out if that is the only thing it sees, or if its combined with the coilpack.

[16v205 9]

The cranking signal will ONLY be generated by the cas if youve wired it as described in the emerald manual.

 

If you want to test the cas works without having a oscilloscope try this. Disconnect your cas from the wiring loom. If you cant probe the pins then pull the boot back on the plug connector so you can see the 3 pins wired straight from the cas. Put your mulimeter onto pins 1 & 2 with it set to look for AC voltage. Pin 1 is voltage, 2 is cas signal generated, 3 is the earth shield.

Crank your engine over and see if you get a voltage reading about 1v, 1.4v is what your really looking for. 0.7v or below and it may be a faulty sensor. To check your doing the right pins set the multimeter to ohms and pop it on pin 1 & 2. You should see a reading between 600 and 1500 resistance roughly. If youre not getting a ohm reading then you have a faulty cas or faulty wire.

 

If you generate a reading on the ac test then the cas is working fine. If you dont get a signal and the ohm's test works check the distance from the cas to the flywheel. Measure the cas probe height from the underside where it sits on the gearbox to the bottom and the gearbox mount where the cas sits to the flywheel trigger teeth. Subtract the 2 and you should have a gap less than 1.3mm but more than 3mm.

 

Good luck,

Rich

[16v205 9]

BTW - Ignore the coilpack for the moment your not getting that far. Assuming youve a normal twin coil style coil pack, then it is supplied with a 12v feed that should be switched on with ignition live. It seems youve got that sorted so leave it

 

The emerald will then earth what coil it needs to to fire cyl 1 & 4 or 2 & 3. The emerald knows when to do this by the CAS, the coil wont be generating a signal. The emerald completes the circuit by earthing the coil through itself. Thats why you have an emerald and can adjust the ignition timing.

 

It is possible to use a second timing device on the cams like a locked dizzy, or cam rotation sensor if your setting up synchronous injection. But unless you have actually fitted something for this purpose then the only way the emerald knows the engine is rotating is by the CAS.

 

Rich

[M3Evo 0]

Just a very minor nit pick, but the emerald earths the coil to charge it and fires the plugs by making the earth go open circuit which is where this whole charge soak thing comes from: The less times each coil needs to fire, the more time it can spend being earthed through the ECU and thus charging up to fire again

[16v205 9]

m3evo - No problem with nit picking especially if its explaining exactly how something works

 

Rich

[Dream Weaver 2]

Fluck me, this is becoming hard work - I thought it would just fire up first time

 

Thanks Rich, I will try that out at the weekend.

 

If the CAS sensor is knackered (which was new from Pug I believe), then i'm in trouble as it was a nightmare to get the old sensor out which involved rubber malletting it from inside the gearbox - I honestly dont think I could remove the CAS sensor without taking the gearbox out now

 

Its fitted in the std gearbox location so would've thought that the position should be OK as it cant get any closer to the flywheel.

[MartinM 0]

Just a very minor nit pick, but the emerald earths the coil to charge it and fires the plugs by making the earth go open circuit which is where this whole charge soak thing comes from: The less times each coil needs to fire, the more time it can spend being earthed through the ECU and thus charging up to fire again

 

Well I'll do a nit-nit pick then...

 

The coil is earthed so that a high current flows through the primary winding (not really 'charging it up' like a capacitor/battery would be charged). This produces a magnetic field inside the coil. When the earth goes open circuit, the field collapses and induces a huge voltage in the secondary winding which is sent to the plug to make the spark.

 

The current flow in the primary builds up relatively slowly when the coil is initially earthed, so the longer the time the coil can be earthed, the greater the current becomes, which leads to a more powerful spark when the earth is opened.

 

[M3Evo 0]

we all learned something here

 

Take is there are teeth on the trigger wheel are there Dream Weaver?

[Dream Weaver 2]

Its a std Mi16 flywheel, with std brand new crank sensor fitted in the std gearbox location as far down as it would go, so I really cant see why there would be a problem with it, unless as said its knackered.

 

Bloody annoying, I so want to here it fire up for the first time and do the final tidying and legalities before going for a spin.

 

I've been in bed all afternoon with the most rotten cold ever, so wont be able to touch it until the weekend now

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Can you take a pic of the crank sensor and where it's fitted? I ask this becasue you say you need to take the box off to replace it....which shouldn't be. It's just with one bolt fixed to the top of the box.

[Dream Weaver 2]

It is the std one on top of the gearbox, but to remove the old sensor to fit the current new one I couldnt get it out from the top of the gearbox, so had to hammer it out from inside - luckily that was before the engine was fitted.

 

The sensor is a tight fit, so it will be hard to remove it by just pulling it out of the gearbox mount.

 

Had a good reply from Karl at Emerald tonight, basically echoing Rich's advice above about ohms, multimeters and all that stuff

 

He also confirmed the ECU gets it crank signal from the CAS before powering any of the other bits - coil, injectors etc, and he confirmed what Rob said earlier - CAS wires work wired in either way, but if you wire them in wrong it will be limited to 5,500rpm.

 

So I need to test the wiring to the CAS first.

[Dream Weaver 2]

Right, tried out the advice today given from Rich and also Karl at Emerald.

 

The new CAS that was fitted was showing no figures for ohms or AC voltage both at the ECU end of the wiring, and from the actual CAS plug.

 

So I whipped the coilpack off, then removed the new CAS and luckily still had my old sensor in the garage - it was a bit battered but at least it gave a multimeter reading, so I re-fitted it.

 

The pins on the old CAS connection are showing 515 ohms resistance, and voltage wise on cranking they register 0.5-0.7v, though they register that without cranking as well which is odd.

 

I was hoping that the new CAS I fitted was buggered, and by fitting my old CAS (which worked on the old engine) the problem would be solved and it would fire up, but did it bollocks!!

 

Not sure what to do now. I could buy a new CAS but they are circa £60 I think, and if it still doesnt work then its even more money wasted.

 

Anyone got any ideas what to try now, or anyone have a spare working CAS I could borrow?

 

Getting very frustrated with it now, just want to start the bloody thing

[M3Evo 0]

Think they're about £30 from Emerald, although that might not fit without modification.

 

I've got a spare one you can borrow if you like, it's from the beemer but it should fit.

[M3Evo 0]

Hmm, something that's just occured to me: Did you use shielded cable for the wiring of the sensor.

 

Must admit I didn't on mine and this thread has reminded me that I probably need to change it!

 

Spent ages looking for 2 core shielded stuff so if anyone's got any suggestions?

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Hmm, something that's just occured to me: Did you use shielded cable for the wiring of the sensor.

 

Must admit I didn't on mine and this thread has reminded me that I probably need to change it!

 

Spent ages looking for 2 core shielded stuff so if anyone's got any suggestions?

 

I got a spare 405 loom from the breakers when I wired up my emerald, and used the shielded originalcable.. worked great.