My New Engine Pictures

[jackherer 543]

To be honest, I don't think the gti6 box will give me a massive advantage over the standard box on track and on the quarter mile I it could be a disadvantage.

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I was thinking low gearing could be a disadvantage with that sort of power, what sort of rpm do you expect the power to really start to build up?

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

With the gearing, it's all relative depending on the revs being used, so if it will rev to 8500rpm+ it's going to be doing major speeds on a 1.9 gearbox like about 85mph in 2nd for example!!!

 

I'd say a 1.6 final drive would work well due to the extra revs available, but will still mean it will get high speeds in each gears. But with a GTi6 box I think you're stuck as regards ratios.

[Rik 0]

That is amazing fella, hats off to you

 

whats the rest of the car like?

 

I'm currently building my Mi up, will be around 220 - 230 BHP.

 

In a concours, track prepped, shell!

 

What are the advantages of using an Electric water pump?

 

Rik

[8pot 0]

Don't know how the above happened!!! Think Martin has been pi%%ing about with my computer.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

[Guest 205tom]

yea have you got some pics of the full car mate?

[petert 550]

As I wanted my engine in my car ASAP I'm going to run my standard 1.9 box with my ATB to get me going,

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I think you'll be very disappointed with the std. 1.9 box. Then even the GTi6 box is useless if you can't find a lower diff. The 3.62 diff is way too long for those cams. You'll be falling off the boil all the time. I run a 4.43 in mine. The minimum I'd consider would be 4.06.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Looking good, Might get round to getting mine finished at some point, Watch out for the GTi6 box instd form as it has a habbit of stripping teeth as the depth of the teeth are rubbish compared to the 5 speed box, I;ve come arcoss lots of 6 boxes with this problem and no 5 speeds.

Any reason for why the injectors are so close to the inlet port?

[Dream Weaver 2]

Fantastic Martin, i'm guessing you could've bought quite a few 205 gti's with the cost of that build.

[Butler 0]

Nice. So assuming you can keep enough oil around the pick up, the bottom end is good for big power then?

 

 

Why have you gone steel block and not alloy? How do you feel about the weight issue?

 

Miles, is your engine going to be steel or alloy bottom end? Same question to you about the weight issue.

 

 

Cheers,

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Thanks again chaps for all the positive feed back .

Peter,I think there's a lot of mis-conceptions over gear ratios and final drives, as long as you have got close enough gear ratios to keep in the power band of your particular engine you will be alright, all the final drive will dictate is how the car will get off the line. My engine will come on the cam at 4k and as I have said, start falling off after 9k. The ratios in a gti6 box in my opinion will be too close for my engine and on a lap, I will be faster with five gears as is the case with a lot of racing cars and bikes. I won't give a second thought to my final drive, as I know if I lowered it I would be slower of the line and I think that's all it will effect.

Miles, my mate Andy at AMT (who mapped my last engine) wanted me to run eight injectors, and I was also keen because I could have got away without buying any new injectors, but I put this to Eddie and he insisted I ran four greens to stop over complicating things. We didn't discuss injector position, but I'm sure if Eddie had thought running them in the standard position on the Jenvey TB's as we are, he would have told me to do something else. It's an interesting point about the strength of the gears although plenty of people seemed to be running them on turbo cars without problem and they will be producing more torque than me and this is what knackers boxes.

Butler I don't think the weight issue is an issue, I've weighed the two blocks my self and know the difference, as I have moved my battery to the boot, I think I've counteracted most of the difference. Obviously I would have preferred not to be running with the extra weight but using the cast iron block allows you to bore out to 88mm, which not only gives you extra cubes, it unshrouds the valves which lets the head work better for free.

Cheers Martin

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

yea have you got some pics of the full car mate?

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Pictures of Martin's car in it previous incarnation here.

 

Marc, fairly sure Miles has stayed with the Alloy block in his car.

 

Graham.

[Butler 0]

I thought Miles was using alloy too. Just interested to see what people were actually doing. Theres a lot of threads around about weight and some say the weight is more than 20kgs. I was interested to see what people like Peter, Martin and Miles were actually doing as they have all obviously put a lot of thought into these projects.

 

I am buying an 16v engine very soon and deciding whether to insist on a alloy block as the battery will be moved anyway.

[petert 550]

Peter,I think there's a lot of mis-conceptions over gear ratios and final drives, as long as you have got close enough gear ratios to keep in the power band of your particular engine you will be alright, all the final drive will dictate is how the car will get off the line.

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To a point. If you're just going to tootle around, then yes. But if you want to get between corner 1 and corner 2 in the quickest possible time, it's all about axle torque.

 

eg

3rd gear

 

180Nm x 1.36 x 4.43 = 1084Nm

 

210Nm x 1.36 x 3.62 = 1033Nm

 

Someone with a std. Mi16 and a low diff with blow you away!

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

To a point. If you're just going to tootle around, then yes. But if you want to get between corner 1 and corner 2 in the quickest possible time, it's all about axle torque.

 

eg

3rd gear

 

180Nm x 1.36 x 4.43 = 1084Nm

 

210Nm x 1.36 x 3.62 = 1033Nm

 

Someone with a std. Mi16 and a low diff with blow you away!

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But with the higher diff you might be able to use 2'nd gear instead of 3'rd, and then it's probably to be the other way around again?

[Shevy 4]

Martin,

 

What size trumpets are you running on the T/B's ?

 

Kevin

[Paul205 0]

Sounds great. Glad its finally coming together.

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Kevin, my trumpets are the same ones as I was using on my old engine which are farley short at 60mm long, Eddie reckon these will be ideal.

Bulter, the weight difference between the iron and alloy blocks is 16kgs according to my bathroom scales.

I'm putting the engine in before the cars ready for it really, I've got loads of nice bits waiting to be fitted, but at the moment I only have time to fit the engine, all I'll do this year with the car is have it mapped and pay a few visits to Santa pod.

Some of the bits I've got waiting to be fitted are as follows.

305mm bell mounted discs and ex-works Subaru Alcon calipers,

Bilstien tarmac coilovers and adjustable top mounts and shock absorbers,

Rose jointed bottom arms with spherical bearings instead of bushes,

Full SD caged,

Plastic glass,

I still need to a get my rear suspension bars (which I'll need to speak to Miles about) and a pair of seats and harness plus a few more bits and bobs).

Rik, the electric pump takes a lot lees power to run, some people say up to 8bhp on a 300bhp engine. Your car sounds like it will be a tool, have you got any pictures?

 

Cheers Martin

[jonnie205 1]

All that money spent and no mention of a decent gearbox??

 

Get a sequential in there quick!!!

[Rik 0]

Martin, i can give you some works in progress pics if you like? But the car will be a year or so away coming out on to the scene!

 

Once works gets under way they'll be some pics going up.

 

 

Can i ask if there is gonna be any re-productions of the exhaust? As i would like a custom made one, as the ones that are knocking around at the moment don't seem to be up to standard. Do you have a number for the guy?

 

Whats the deal with the timing sensor? Or can i not ask? I would just like to know what sensor you've used and what toothed pulley is from?

 

Rik

[DrSeuss 0]

I think he used that due to a severely lightened alloy flywheel where the toothed wheel was removed. Fords and some Alfa's use that timing wheel i believe.

 

For a race car like yours Martin surely you want a LOOooooong first to get the power down, then all the other ratio's closely stacked near the top of the box. Keeping you out of the dead space below 4k. There's a 240-270hp 8v that uses a pugsport box with 106 ratio's i believe.

[DJ_ManuR6 0]

1sr of all, amazing job man, congratulations. I deffo have to move to northen europe!

 

Is 106 gearboz ratios interchangable with BE boxes??

 

if it were, NICE !

 

Cheers

[phatgti 0]

maybe a 4.4 FD with a 1.9 1st gear then 1.6 ratios throughout, it wouldn't put quite as much strain on the drivetrain as a 1.6 1st gear plus you get the advantage of getting more traction then blatting through the gears faster once you going.

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Martin, i can give you some works in progress pics if you like? But the car will be a year or so away coming out on to the scene!

 

Once works gets under way they'll be some pics going up.

Can i ask if there is gonna be any re-productions of the exhaust? As i would like a custom made one, as the ones that are knocking around at the moment don't seem to be up to standard. Do you have a number for the guy?

 

Whats the deal with the timing sensor? Or can i not ask? I would just like to know what sensor you've used and what toothed pulley is from?

 

Rik

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Rik, the exhaust was made to suit my engine and won't necessarily work on other engines, I tried it on my standard engine with the TB's and it lost power compared to my maniflow system and it totally messed up the fuelling. 99% of tuners don't understand and underestimate the importance of a properly designed exhaust system.

The timing disc is all pretty standard stuff that comes with the kit from DTA.

Cheers Martin

[Rob Thomson 6]

maybe a 4.4 FD with a 1.9 1st gear then 1.6 ratios throughout

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That's just a 1.9 box with 4.4 CWP. The 1.6 & 1.9 ratios are the same with the exception of 1st, and the final drives are obviously different.

 

Anyway, this talk about gear ratios is interesting. I've never quite been able to get my head around the idea that changing to a lower CWP ratio gives faster acceleration. If the gear ratios are the same then the section of the engine's rev range in use is the same, which means the average power/torque used in each gear is the same - regardless of CWP. So it follows that acceleration shouldn't be any different, apart from having to spend more time changing gear. Do you follow that? I'm not sure I do!

 

I reckon you should choose top gear based on how fast you want to go flat-out, choose bottom gear based on the highest gear ratio you can use that allows you to accelerate cleanly without bogging down, and then space the rest evenly.

 

So why do I have a shiny rebuilt 1.9/Mi16 hybrid sat on the garage floor? f*** knows.

Edited June 14, 2005 by Rob Thomson