Another Year, Another Rear Beam Warning

[tashanoodles 0]

It'll be safe, but the longer you leave it means the repair bill will go up and up. it'll go from just new bearings to a whole new beam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So say i'm lucky enough to just have the bearings gone at the mo, how much are we talking for that?

Also, is there any way of me checking?

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Ok so should i be doing something about it? I mean, am i safe to drive for the time being? Seeing as i'm on a pretty basic level when it comes to mechanics, and don't want to be ripped off what's my next step? I can't afford to spend out on the pug for a good few months yet, just don't wanna make things worse, or drive around in it when its not safe to. :s

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldn't really worry too much about it tbh, when I say it will definitely be worn, I mean it will show signs of wear when you take it apart, but it might otherwise appear to be ok (ie no play in the trailing arms and not siezed). Probably 9/10 205s would show signs of wear if they were inspected.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I wouldn't really worry too much about it tbh, when I say it will definitely be worn, I mean it will show signs of wear when you take it apart, but it might otherwise appear to be ok (ie no play in the trailing arms and not siezed). Probably 9/10 205s would show signs of wear if they were inspected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree.

 

Also, is there any way of me checking?

Only by stripping it down really or in a very basic way, standing behind to check for any camber on the back wheels & parking the car facing uphill with handbrake on, footbrake released to see if it lifts up on the rear suspension with no nasty noises. Try driving off with the handbrake on & see if it compresses the rear suspension again with no noises. Any squeaks or clunks from the back end could mnean bad news though IMO.

 

Graham.

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

No, they're dying just as fast. Good beams are hard to find. I'm talking to an engineering place about making new ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There was (is?) a place over (sp engineering I think) here that machined out the worn section of the tube and then pressed in a new section rather than make a new beam from scratch. Given your distance from Europe I would think this would be worth considering for you.

 

Rob

[bren_1.3 1]

hmmmmmm would it be possible to save dead beam tubes by machining out the pitting much like sp engineering do? i also had thoughts of machining out the pitting and corrosion and fitting a shim or a cup into the tube before fitting the bearing.

 

would this not help with wear? would it weaken the tube?

[vern 0]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the price for a new crosstube from peugeot is £296, and they are available. At that price I will try and find a secondhand one!!.

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

hmmmmmm would it be possible to save dead beam tubes by machining out the pitting much like sp engineering do? i also had thoughts of machining out the pitting and corrosion and fitting a shim or a cup into the tube before fitting the bearing.

 

offcourse .

 

 

also, one can use bronze bushes (grease nipples required) to rebuild a

knackered rear beam / trailing arm shafts, an option completely overseen

in this thread.

 

in fact, i'm going to get it done that way .

 

i think pugtorque rebuilt one of his beams this way too.

 

 

(puts a flame suit on )

[bren_1.3 1]

ahhh see at least one of us is always thinking.

 

what are bronze bushes?

 

i dont agree with reusing trailing arm shafts but saving dead beam tubes would be worth attempting through the technique you describe. beam tubes seem to be getting thin on the ground these days, and id rather have a gti beam tube than a base model beam tube.

 

i dont know why but i reckon im heading towards the life of a rear beam crusader just like anthony and wurzel.

[Wurzel 16]

Just my two pence worth, but if you manage to catch a beam that has relatively good trailing arm shafts, ie slightly polished but no discernable pitting or indentations, then buying some outer bearings, a couple of seals and some grease will cost around £30 to £40 and much easier to sort out than having to fork out an extra £120 for two trailing arm shafts plus the cost of pressing them in.

 

Anthony is right in the fact that sourcing beams from scrapyards is expensive. Most scrappies up here want around £75 for a 205 beam and £100 for a 309 beam (GTi). I try and do an exchange scheme as long as the part ex beam is in good nick which is getting rare these days.

 

What really makes me laugh is the shock when you state prices to people. 'How Much!' is the usual answer I get. Parts cost is passed on 'as is' from the various sources such as scrappies, Pug dealers, then the cost of petrol and a few quid beer tokens added on top (very similar to Anthony).

 

My answer to the 'How Much!' comeback, is 'Shouldn't have left it so long mate'.

 

Beams DO NOT have to show camber or even knocking before they can be borderline or even beyond repair. If in doubt, budget for the worse case scenario. Anything less is a bonus.

[Anthony 1,000]

Just my two pence worth, but if you manage to catch a beam that has relatively good trailing arm shafts, ie slightly polished but no discernable pitting or indentations, then buying some outer bearings, a couple of seals and some grease will cost around £30 to £40 and much easier to sort out than having to fork out an extra £120 for two trailing arm shafts plus the cost of pressing them in.

Yeah - in simple terms, polishing is fine, pitting or corrosion isn't.

 

Bearing or seal failure through leaving the beam too long WILL result on one or both of the later however, which is exactly why I and Nick keep harping on about getting beams done sooner or later, and that once they show symptoms of failure that it's often too late to do anything.

[bobs205 0]

Ive just got a 309 gti beam from a scrapy for £40 but the tube is f***ed as in outside bearing's gone to dust and ovaled tube od the driver's side and the shaft is all most rusted right through but the passenger side is all most prefect the shaft has no bearing make's on it at all so now i've got to find a new ish tube i'm thinking base model they was 309 style there

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

Fortunetly where i am the scrappies are very good, £25-30 for a 309 205 gti beam

[jim205GTI 3]

me thinks i'll be on the hunt now for a 309 gti......seen one in a scrappy a while back might still have it.......or see if my mate still has his goodwood sat about....hmmm this pug business ain't cheap but certainly worth it

[nick-rallye 0]

is there any idea of a millage when the beams start to go, im guessing most pugs now are around the 100k+ mark

 

i've just got a 309 GTI beam with 80k on it and never been lowered, yet to strip it though

[Wurzel 16]

is there any idea of a millage when the beams start to go, im guessing most pugs now are around the 100k+ mark

 

i've just got a 309 GTI beam with 80k on it and never been lowered, yet to strip it though

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is difficult to put a mileage estimate on wear really. I've had beams with as little as 60k on the clock with a shagged bearing and yet also had a 100k beam that would have gone on for at least another year before needing attention (would have needed new shafts and bearings though). It hadn't corroded, just flattened the roller bearings and therefore indented the shaft.

 

On average though, I would say that yours at 80k would benefit from an inspection. You may get away with a simple outer bearing and seal replacement if the shafts are in perfect condition.

 

Lowering can speed things up, purely if it disturbs an already failing bearing, but just because it hasn't been, doesn't mean it wouldn't have worn any less.

Edited April 9, 2005 by Wurzel

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

As mentioned by Cybernck;

what are bronze bushes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I posted a picture in this post of what I have done on my 309 beam (that is still waiting to be fitted) that should prevent any further degredation of the beam tube or pivot shaft if caught before any severe damage happens. I intend to grease it every few months or oil change whichever comes sooner.

 

Graham.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Just as another reminder,(not that you should need it) about how bad even a beam that doesn't look to bad can be.

 

I noticed last weekend on the way to the national meet at James's that AndyR's beam was showing signs of camber on the drivers side which I hadn't noticed before so I thought if we hit it quick we'd catch it before things got to bad.

 

Yesterday (Saturday) Wurzel & me went over to Andy's to rebuild his beam, hoping it would be a simple strip, replace & rebuild affair. It wasn't but still all was back together in five hours having been test driven.

 

Pictures show the state when the drivers side came apart, passenger was slightly better, even looked like it had been rebuilt before but the radius arm pin still had ridges from the bearings. I suspect they were GSF ones not genuine Pug.

 

 

Thanks to Nick & his magical press we managed to swap the dead pin for a better one & turned the passenger shaft 180' so the bearings were running on smooth again where they were under weight.

 

We wanted to set the ride height lower than when it came apart so took the bars roight out of the radius arms & set them slightly higher than before. The drivers side bar wasn't an good easy sliding fit but after a few attempts we got it to seat fully home & measured the approximate distance between shocker bolt centres & set the passenger side to a similar height. Thankfully that side went together much easier & adjustment was a simple job but when it was lowered back to the wheels for a test, both sides were sat pretty much even so we left them alone & finished the rebuild.

 

 

 

Andy was happy with the new first guess ride height so fully rebuild completed & a test drive was taken to see everything was OK. It was.

 

Thanks to Nick for coming over & helping us out, without you Andy's car would still be on axle stands now, I'm sure Andy will post his thanks also when he gets a chance.

 

Graham.

[Wurzel 16]

Not a problem G. It good to meet fellow typists now and then. I'm just glad I had 'some' time off to come over

 

Always a pleasure, never a chore.

[AndyR 0]

Yes, Mucho Gracias

 

Car feels different in corners now, getting used to it again...but many thanks, otherwise Id have been on the bike this morning!

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

After a record strip time on Nathanlgd's beam this afternoon I'd like to add to bring this warning back to the present day to refresh peoples memories with how bad things can get & still appear OK. 1 1.2 hours after getting there the beam was in my boot in pieces & I was on my way home again. It looked bad as soon as the drivers side was apart but on further investiagtionwhen I got home the tube is beyond use. .

 

Passenger side;

 

 

Drivers side;

 

 

 

Radius arm shafts;

 

Personally I think the beam condition & rebuild is almost as important as a new cambelt on a car you've just bought, leave it at your peril unless you know its been rebuilt in the last year & who it was done by.

 

I just hope the two 309's in my local scrapyard have decent beams that can be raped for bits.

 

Graham.

[jonD6B 0]

I just hope the two 309's in my local scrapyard have decent beams that can be raped for bits.

 

Graham.

 

 

If you find yourself a good 309 beam, I will be more than happy to pay you to recon and sell it to me.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

They aren't GTi beam's, at least one is a diesel.

 

Graham.

[Anthony 1,000]

Yup, an all too common story.

 

I'd say that about half the 205 (and especially) 309 GTi beams I see nowadays are in this sort of condition, and it's becoming rarer and rarer that I find a beam that's "good"

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - by the time your beam is showing signs of death (camber, groaning, play, siezing) then it's probably already beyond an economic refurb, so much better doing them whilst they still *appear* to be good.... although appearing to be good and actually being good when you strip them are two very different things!

[richsmells 2]

Anthony, the beam you fitted to my car about 5 months ago is much improved from the previous! However, it's a bit on the low side i.e. not matching the ride height at the front terribly well. I thought the car would settle after a while but it doesn't appear to have done.

 

I am considering having the rear ride height raised to match the front but am now worried about disturbing the seals.

[S33GAV 0]

Think I'll be booking my miami in for some rear beam recon work then as no idea of it's condition. Seems to ride fine and "looks" fine, i.e. no / \.