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SRDT

Motronic MP3.1 wiring diagram and more

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SRDT

As I said I have some documents about the Motronic MP3.1, mostly in French but worth the read.

You can probably use optical character recognition and automatic translation online to create english versions, I don't think my english is good enough for proofreading.

 

Due to the upload limit I had to find them on the internet again.

 

First the XU9J2 from the 405 and BX:

 

http://405sri.free.fr/Documentation/manuels_atelier_405/405__114-F-02_90_MOCIR_01_moteur_XU9J2_injection-allumage_bosch_motronic_MP3.1__controles_interventions_reglages.pdf

http://405sri.free.fr/Documentation/manuels_atelier_405/405__158-F-09_90_MOC_AI_01_moteur_XU9J2_injection-allumage_bosch_motronic_MP3.1__controles_interventions_reglages__additif.pdf

http://www.lacitroenbx.com/~gwen/divers/bx/NT_BX_01_101.pdf

 

Then the TU3FJ2, this one is really cool but a bit strange as it's way beyond what a mechanic needs to know to fix a car:

 

https://prepa205gti.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/bosch_motronic_mp3_1_ax_gti_institut_citroen.pdf

 

And some in English:

 

http://www.squadramoravia.com/manual/33/ignition/MP31.pdf

http://www.alfa145.com/upload/Alfa145Manual/Volume 3 - Section 2/Injection & Ignition Boxer - 1.6 - Motronic MP3.1.PDF

https://prepa205gti.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/bosch_motronic_mp3_1_toutes_marques.pdf

 

There is also the AFM delete mod from the 309 GTI16 Gr.A, too bad the special .bin file from this ecu is nowhere to be seen:

 

2096365587_MP3.1XU9J4Gr.A.thumb.jpg.9ed7377ebd2f4a5dcb64fa143476f35b.jpg

 

Speaking of .bin file does anyone have the ZX 1.9i one?

 

 

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Gavin Waddell

Cheers for that will make an interesting read.

 

just need to print out the pages.

 

tjanks Gavin 

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SRDT

The TU3FJ2 is using IAC, for those with the XU9J2 ecu you can refer to this PDF about the XU9JAZ ML1.3:

 

Bosch-Motronic-ML1.3.pdf

 

 

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DamirGTI

Wow , seems like we have a lot to read now !

 

Thanks for sharing !

 

About the ZX Volcane .bin file , me at least i cannot remember anyone ever posted one for ZX  , but there was recently .bin file for the XU9JAZ ECU if that's of any use to you ?

 

Anyways , best to search the forum via google (site:www.205gtidrivers.com) , it'll come up with better results/more precise ..

 

D

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SRDT

I have a ML1.3 XU9JAZ .bin, that's why I'm curious about the MP3.1 XU9JA .bin.

Looking at .bin files I have found some XU9J4 and XU9JAZ ML1.3 .bin that are really close, it seems that Peugeot used the same all purpose file before tuning it for each engine.

They have the same number of map at the same places so things like IAC, knock sensor, lambda or Dwell are there even if unused.

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welshpug

wiring diagrams have been posted on here a few times already for the MP3.1, from the zx and bx iirc, and a scan by a French member of a 106 diagram

 

very interesting that the gti16 got an Mp3.1 ecu as an allowed mod  :D  I do recall mention of a very early emerald ecu being used on 205 challenge cars, cant quite make out all the components shown there, was it intended as a plug in without changing the loom?

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SRDT

They probably had to keep the distributor but not the AFM.

If you have a ML4.1 the MP3.1 is indeed really close, maybe they made a MP3.2 mod for the late ML1.3 GTI16.

The components top to bottom:

 

Diagnostics

Injectors

Coil

Ignition module

Power

Crankshaft position sensor

Water temp sensor

Air temp sensor

TPS

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jackherer

I'd like to know what TPS they fitted, presumably they replaced a switch with a potentiometer?

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jackherer

Thanks, that's very interesting.

 

It talks about a potentiometer support (79021-02E) so I presume that is an adaptor of some sort and the potentiometer is not a direct fit.

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SRDT

The throttle body isn't stock either so maybe the potentiometer is simply the one used on the XU9J2, XU10J2 and TU3FJ2: 1628.L1

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jackherer

OK that makes sense, I didn't realise it used a different throttle body.

 

I was hoping there was a potentiometer that would fit directly onto the XU9J4 throttle body (and by extension the XU9JA as that uses the same switch.)

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SRDT

At last I found one for free on the web, the elusive ZX 1.9i .bin file.

On a 8 bit Motronic file you can find the (reversed) ECU part number in ASCII. Here it's at  #1F02 and it's the right one.

I don't have a .xdf file but the table of maps starts at #6300

 

https://www.205gtidrivers.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=30388

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DamirGTI

I simply cannot open that ZX file ?! .. probably because i'm running Linux , says "file damaged" .

 

Pretty please , can anyone make a screenshot of the maps from that document ?

 

 

D

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welshpug

I have an ecu here but I would not know where to start with reading the map file :lol:

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SRDT
1 hour ago, DamirGTI said:

I simply cannot open that ZX file ?! .. probably because i'm running Linux , says "file damaged" .

 

Pretty please , can anyone make a screenshot of the maps from that document ?

 

 

D

It's a binary file with a mix of code and data, you need a hex editor to look at it.

I am using Tunerpro but I dont have any .xdf file and I'm not good enough to make one from scratch.

 

ECU part number and software revision are here:

 

854064026_Sanstitre.png.15534f21a9b0548fbc4a114e64cdaea9.png

 

And the maps are listed here:

 

1115538817_Sanstitre2.png.5cba84c0a21d687964d4d5794fac8846.png

 

The first map is at #64AC but the code will only look at the first address on the map list to find it so you can move the map around the file as long as you keep the list updated.

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Thijs_Rallye
14 hours ago, SRDT said:

It's a binary file with a mix of code and data, you need a hex editor to look at it.

I am using Tunerpro but I dont have any .xdf file and I'm not good enough to make one from scratch.

 

And the maps are listed here:

 

1115538817_Sanstitre2.png.5cba84c0a21d687964d4d5794fac8846.png

 

The first map is at #64AC but the code will only look at the first address on the map list to find it so you can move the map around the file as long as you keep the list updated. 

Aaah the infamous table of tables. I should have a tool somewhere which generates a XDF from the table of tables in the binary. It was written by a user called PRJ at Nefarious motorsport, I'll have to see if I can find it on one of my laptops later, it was quite a while ago since I last used this. It didn't work that well and I've later decided to just make my own XDF.

 

To add to the post of SRDT, if you look at the first address in the table of tables you'll see the start address of a map, in this case 64ACh -> if you look further in the dump you'll see at that specific location the two bytes 38, which is called the header. The next two bytes will give you the length of the axis (and/or table), which is this case is 02h -> 02d. So this table contains 64h and 52h as it's axis, the other 8 bytes are 80h and 80h which are the actual values of that table.

 

x axis:64|52
y axis:80|80

 

To double check you can look at the next 4 bytes in the table of tables, which is 64B2h -> this is where the next table starts. If you look in the dump at that address you'll see that are the two bytes next to the 80h of the first tables we've just found.

 

The motronic ECU reads the axis and table data in reverse and uses conversion factors, which depend on which header the table has. So it reads the last value of the table and subtracts the value of the cell next to it. If one wants more explanation I'd highly recommend using the wayback machine in combination with motronic.ws. It took me _al lot_ of time to get a little understanding of how these ECU's operate and if I knew how much time it would have taken me to get to this point I'd probably wouldn't do it again :'). 3B is RPM and conversion factor is 40, have a go at the dump posted by SRDT.

 

Furthermore: WinOLS is much better suited for defining maps for motronic ECU's since it has a native function which understands the way the axis are calculated. This is a real PITA in Tunerpro.

 

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DamirGTI

Too complicated for me !! , I'm still struggling with a "proper" maps let alone these "coded" stuff ... :blush:

 

But thank you both for the effort !

 

 

D

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Gavin Waddell

Bit of a thread revival.

 

I have an mp3.1 loom i think is from a BX gti, i has the big brown double relay. I was looking for the pin outs for the relay but can't find wiring diagrams, or the ones i do find  the links dont work any more. 

 

Can any body help.

 

Thanks Gavin 

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welshpug

there's a diagram in the pdf on the first post in this thread.

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Gavin Waddell

If you mean this one ? I saw it, but it doesnt have the pin outs, and some of the pictures i dont get what they represent. This is what i can think each one might be but I'm probably wrong on some of them.  Feel free to correct me

 

1636475776797765472627484250213.jpg

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SRDT

The pictures aren't that good but you can see and read (though in French) that the BX is using two relays. Maybe they later switched to a double relay, if your loom is really from a BX then it should be pretty long as the ECU was under the front seat.

For a better look at the wiring of the double relay look a the TU3FJ2 pdf.

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pug_ham

The ecu pin out is the same for the 405, BX & ZX, I've never seen a 405 or BX with the later double injection relay fitted, those I stripped years ago had two single relays in a box similar to the Mi16 looms.

 

Are you sure your loom isn't from a ZX?

 

Like Baptiste says, the length of the loom will be an obvious indication, the BX loom is almost twice as long as you need to fit it into a 205, even if you put the ecu in the original 205 location.

 

g.

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Gavin Waddell

Maybe it is from a ZX as the loom isn't 

that long, i fitted a mi16 bX loom once and that put the ecu under the seat. 

 

Thats why i asked as i can find wiring diagrams which show 2 relays and not one big one which has more outputs.

 

Funny thing is i bought it off a memeber on here a long while ago and, i found one of his orginal threads

and he said it was from a bx

 

I found and old post but the links dont work in it any more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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pug_ham
4 hours ago, Gavin Waddell said:

Maybe it is from a ZX as the loom isn't 

that long, i fitted a mi16 bX loom once and that put the ecu under the seat. 

 

Thats why i asked as i can find wiring diagrams which show 2 relays and not one big one which has more outputs.

If the loom isn't very long then it's defintily not from a BX, having the double relay also suggests this.

 

I've just searched & found a rough picture of the zx3.1 wiring diagram I posted on another topic which I've attached.

 

ZX_MP3.1.pdf

 

I thought I had been posted on here at sometime previously, not on this topic though.

 

I also thought I had the full related haynes manual section for the ZX, I'll have a search for itand post it on here if I findit.

 

g

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