Yet another XU9/10 engine build

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thank you gentleman. That explains a lot. Pictures below. Looks like I am an alternator bracket short

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Cheers Mei. That would explain the lighter crank. All the more reason for my wanting to keep the reciprocating mass as low as possible on this build,, hence bespoke rods  and probably pistons . The mounting on the right in the photograph above looks like it is just an engine mounting and an alternator mounting is a separate bracket.  Clearly the one on the left has provision for both power steering and alternator ( and probably aircon too) . I think I will drop both on the block and see what is needed. In the end, I can follow the suggestion made by Rich and cut the big bracket down .

 As for master cylinder clearance Rich, when I strip the bay completely ready to respray it, I plan to relocate the pedal box slightly higher up to get around the cam box clearance issues . The be fair, it was already very close on my XU9J4 installation in my last car ( sob) some with a 10mm taller block, something will have to move . 

[welshpug 1,621]

I think you can make the non ac XUD  pas/alternator bracket work, use the lighter S16 type top bracket and an s16/diesel/205 alternator, utilise the pas location and a standard sliding tensioner pulley, or make a simple adjuster rod if you run manual or electric pas.

 

 

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Righto. Thanks Interesting option. I have both a 205 alternator and one from an S16. The former is excellent and the latter unknown, so keen to use the former if possible . Your suggestion does just that. So I just need to PAS bracket from an XUD . 

Quick post on the ‘wanted ‘ page ?

 

[Ozymandis 96]

XUD, dont have a combined PAS and alternator bracket.

The PAS pump brackets on top of the gearbox.

I think you all mean an XUD alternator bracket?

I gave Miles an XUD alternator bracket a while ago and think this is what he wanted it for.

Maybe ask him?

[petert 549]

With all due respect, Welshpug's solution is ok, but a turn buckle with rod ends is a more eloquent solution. Cut off excess mass until the combined PAS/alternator mount looks like this.

[petert 549]

Mine use to look like this. The offset on yours looks different.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

1 hour ago, petert said:

...Cut off excess mass until the combined PAS/alternator mount looks like this.

This is what I did (and may still have lying around). Compared with the original monstrosity, you can see what a small piece you're left with.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thank you all for this help. The photographs and advice are great . When my thrust washers arrive, I will drop the crank back in, pop the timing gear and pulley on, drop on the mount and look at the alignment. The xud alternator bracket is the neatest solution but I am happy to cut and shut. I do like the idea Peter of an adjuster using a couple of small rod ends and a locknut . Thanks for the offer Rich . Appreciated. What have you got me  in too???

Andy

[welshpug 1,621]

8 hours ago, Ozymandis said:

XUD, dont have a combined PAS and alternator bracket.

yes they do, ill show it later.

[Ozymandis 96]

Welsh, all the XUD 205`s I have seen, that have PAS, it`s driven off the camshaft at the gearbox end with a pulley and belt to a pump on top of the gearbox.

I have 6 XUD 205`s and all are like that, also my stack of XUD engines and heads are all the same?

I think they did it like that because there isnt enough room at the timing end ?

[Tom Fenton 1,524]

I think the 306 XUD's had it mounted the other end on a big bracket, probably as you say, there just wasn't room in the 205, all the 205's and 309's I've seen had the PAS pump at the "wrong" end! I'm sure some had a double pulley arrangement with an external vac pump at the "wrong" end too?

 

Totally OT but Jay, would you have a spare bracket that mounts on the gearbox for the PAS pump you would part with? The one in my 205 Mi has been hacked about and is in a bit of a mess!

[Ozymandis 96]

Yes Tom I do have some gearbox brackets if You need one.

Is it for a turbo or non turbo?

The mounting holes are drilled different for each, on one the pas is driven from the inner belt of the camshft double pulley, and on the other  from the outer belt on the double pulley.

i just fitted a non turbo one and had to re drill the holes for the m8 mounting bolts, it was simple enough and is neat, I will take a pic and  show you when I go back out after this bacon and egg buttie.

 

[Ozymandis 96]

[Ozymandis 96]

Thats a non turbo bracket re drilled to move the pas pump across to the turbo position, you can see the double cam pulley ,the outer belt will now drive the vac pump.

Tom I had a look and have a non turbo one fairly handy in a scrapper, you can drill it to suit if needed.

 

[welshpug 1,621]

I said xud, not 205 xud   most likely from a 306 as Tom mentioned, it looks identical to an S16 item that I have on my gti6 block, you could easily chop bits off it to make it smaller similar to what peter showed.

 

my alternator adjuster was just a 205 item with a bracket made from 3mm steel from the scrap pile, so essentially free, and easier to use than faffing with rose joints.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

On 10/25/2018 at 7:36 PM, Andy said:

Thank you gentleman. That explains a lot. Pictures below. Looks like I am an alternator bracket short

The story goes on. The lower part of this bracket that supports the alternator is clearly not designed for the 205gti/ Mi16 alternator, as the spacing between the lugs is wrong . So I either adapt and modify or get a gti6 alternator . 

[dcc 855]

Consider finding yourself an ew10/12 alternator if you're going to make a bracket. They are higher amps and generally much newer/better design.

 

From memory the one i'm going to use is ew12.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Good point. My thinking on the home made bracket was that I could use the alternator I already have, but I agree that if I make an alternator mount, I am not constrained by  one particular type. 

Are you using an alloy block for your build or an iron one ? 

Andy

[dcc 855]

Ill be going iron block, with a custom made bracket, but i havent looked to see how far off the standard bracket is with the xu/ew mount

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Bit of initial block prep. Paint stripped and now in a bath of DEOX c for corrosion removal, prior to a trip to the machine shop.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

And after the bath

[petert 549]

I recommend removing casting flash with a die grinder. It can chip/break off quite easily. Get right in and around the oil return passages from the head.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Hi Peter,

 I will do a full deburr once the main machining has been done, prior to doing a ‘proper’ clean . The thrusts are proving to be a bit of a snag. I ordered some oversize ones which arrived yesterday but are incorrect ( the upper pair do not have the ‘tang’ that locates in the slot on the main bearing cap . The other dilemma is the rod length. The 152mm rod just clears. I would like to go to the 158mm RS rod as (a) it is off the shelf, so just custom pistons and (b) the rod length / stoke ratio is better . I do not have a 158 mm rod to do a trial fit so spent last evening with a ruler, set square and compasses plotting out the locus of various different points on the 152mm sized rod on a 158mm rod length . Result is that the head of the standard rod bolt will just clip the bottom of the bore , but from the looks of it, forged rods generally have a threaded upper  part with the cap bolted to it . Certainly the profile of the EW12 rod that I have would walk in , even at 158mm . I will attached a photograph . The Xu10j4 rod has much ‘ broader shoulders’ and will cause a problem at 158mm . I could do with an RS rod , but as I know the dimensions that I need, the rod manufacturer is happy to check and confirm sizing of their rod prior to me committing . Pistons will be Wiseco with a 129mm compression height , Oh, out of curiosity, have you ever taken one of these blocks to 88mm bore? It looks as if the wall thickness between bores would be a bit too low at 5.3mm ?

[petert 549]

I've never been game to take a block to 88mm. The investment in pistons/boring/balancing/time is too much to risk for the sake of 1mm. You're correct in saying the custom rod would have no bolt head to worry about. These 162mm rods I had made recently are very slim in comparison. If you're getting a custom piston made, why not go for the longest rod you can? Or where you hoping to buy an off the shelf piston?