Engine Rattle

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Oh ok I don't think that's the problem then. Looks like having completed all my wiring checks I will have to get the injectors cleaned, rebuild and see what happens.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Telf

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

I still think I would be looking harder at the ignition system, coil, dizzy and ignition amp and all associated wiring.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Dizzee,

I'm not sure i can do anymore checks on the wiring- ive checked every wire in the engine bay and seperated them all fom the loom.

 

Could a distributor cause the problem? Ive just been messing around with it the Vacuum advance capsule is unserviceable- if you suck on it you get a perfect flow of air which isn't right - I don't see how it could cause an over fuel though. Does the output wire from the Dizzy provide the reference for the whole ignition system? I presume it does? I would have thought it would run like a complete pig if this signal wasn't getting through but as I've said when its idling it is OK.

 

Is there any way to test the ignition amp? I cannot find anything on the forums or google

[welshpug 1,622]

the dizzy wire transmits a signal for every single firing stroke of the engine to the ignition amplifier, in turn the same signal goes to the ecu to tell it how fast the engine is turning, and also the rev counter.

 

without that signal you dont get anything.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

So its not the dizzy then.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

small update. Had the injectors tested by -Mr Injector in Suffolk (google him!)

 

Quoted £12.50/injector for test and service, I dropped them off and explained my problem, it turns out he worked on our type of old cars in days gone.

 

Put the injectors on the rig and 20 minutes later declared them serviceable, thoroughly nice bloke - yes he could have done more in depth checking but said basically there was no point. So he changed the filters and sold me a new set of seals/caps - £15 total.

 

It was quite strange watching the test - he showed me how they don't really develop a mist spray due to the fuel pressure - more a direct squirt- which I wasn't expecting.

 

Anyway after asking if I'd checked the AFM, Coolant sensor, Dizzy wire, Ignition Amp leads, dizzy etc etc he thinks its a timing belt issue- so maybe I will check that next!

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

I hope someone can help me with this- heres the cam timing mark and the belt lined up as it was when I fitted it last year

 

Ive locked the top as you can see

​

Edited October 24, 2015 by Telf

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Heres the crank flywheel - its out of position by about 30 degrees...

 

In order to get the belt and cm marks to line up and the lock pin in I had to spend a good while turning the cam

 

am I missing something? Being stupid? would the engine even run in this condition or have I made some error that I'm not seeing?

And whilst im about it- the arrow is the correct locking point for the crank yes?

thanks all

[welshpug 1,622]

ignore any marks on the belt, you need the right size pin for the cam, that looks like it needs to go round a bit further, possibly enough for the crank pin to drop in.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Hi Mei,

 

Advice taken -ignoing any marks i have cranked round the crank pulley- when the bolt is locked in the hole in the postion shown on the crank picture the cam is out as shown. (you can see the locking hole in the casting - its so far out)

 

If I rotate again and lock the crank the locking hole on the cam is 180 degrees out, another rotation and its back as pictured. I guess this means that somehow the timing is out?

 

On the crank that locking hole is sitting above the arrowed point in my previous picture which I presume is the correct point

 

Can anybody confirm this is correct so I can regain some sanity and actually fix it?

 

Thanks

Edited October 24, 2015 by Telf

[welshpug 1,622]

crank looks good there, how far out is the cam?

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

As said, ignore any marks on the belt...113 teeth means they won't line up often!

 

If the crank and cam line up at the same time then you're good.

 

As for injectors, it's modern direct injection engines like tge EcoBoost that use a mist and mist patterns...old injectors like those on the 205 literally just chuck it in.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Mei,

 

The locking hole and casting are about 5 degrees out - So as its a sunday I cant get hold of a new Belt -anybody thing I can reuse the one fitted - like I say its done about 5K since new and fitted.

[welshpug 1,622]

It'll do to time up properly and see if it runs ok but I would be looking to find why its jumped a tooth.

[jackherer 543]

So as its a sunday I cant get hold of a new Belt

If you need a belt pop round, I have a load of new ones in sealed boxes here.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Well it seems that the belt was loose- I could twist the long font run almost 180 degrees. Having wondered how this happened I think it may be down to the rear cam lock not being twisted- the nut was tight but the lock wasn't rotated. I'm presuming this has caused the issue.

 

Time to commence the rebuild.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

I've been scratching my head trying to wok out how this situation has occurred. Having had a read through the cambelt fitment procedure I think i've identified the problem.

 

When I was fitting the belt with my mate he told me to tighten the nut at the back of the block (for the tensioner) but never mentioned turning the spigot to lock the mechanism - so it looks like it was probably this that caused the failure.

 

I didn't read the procedure - just trusted he knew what he was doing - more fool me.

 

So you live and learn I guess!

[Tom Fenton 1,525]

The lever is only used to compress the spring loaded tensioner while you change the belt. When the new belt is fitted you turn the lever back to allow the spring to tension the belt. I usually nip the lever and the two clamp nuts, turn the crank 4 full rotations then slacken the lever and clamp nuts and allow the spring to take up any slack. Then do up the 2 nuts and finally the lever nut. All it does is clamp the sliding tensioner where it is.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Update!

 

Rebuilt- running ok - no misfires after half an hour. I still have that weird noise but now its louder- is it possible to over tighten the alternator belt and cause noise problems?

[large 33]

Have you tried running the engine with the alternator belt removed?

[jackherer 543]

Good news, that could have been catastrophic.

 

As above, try removing the belt, it can make some noise if it is too tight.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

The car is now fixed. The belt it seems was a little tight on the Alternator. Sounds ok apart from its a bit tappety.- this is a job for another day!

 

Thanks to all for their help along the way

 

 

So if anybody is reading this in the future and you have changed the AFM, coolant sensor, ECU, Tacho relay, coil ,leads, dizzy, Ignition amplifier checked all the wiring and the injectors and fuel regulator have been given a clean bill of health I suggest you have a look at your Cam belt (even if your 100% certain its ok!)

 

Paul

Edited November 2, 2015 by Telf

[jackherer 543]

Excellent. I have those terminals BTW, I forgot to text you back.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

OK mate, I will pop round and bring back your AFM and pocket oscilloscope.

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

oh well - 30 mile trip to work- set off home and misfire. -having checked the belt it appears to be out again.....

Edited November 4, 2015 by Telf