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Richie-Van-GTi

[Race_Prep] My New Racecar Build

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Richie-Van-GTi

Since I will be pestering everyone for advice over the coming months I thought it right to have a progress thread. I am building a 206 GTI6 to enter (all being well financially) into the NSSCC 1600-2000cc class next year. I know everyone will say why a 6 instead of a 180 motor, my answer is why not. I know the engines, I know whats available and the only real hurdle is the top mount and downpipe which are not overly difficult. Spec will be as follows

 

GTI6 engine

306XSI gearbox

Pair of PeterT solid cams with solid lifter conversion

40mm ITB's (trying to retain midrange powerband and driveability)

Lightweight flywheel

305mm 4 pots up front (406 discs with CL500 brembo calipers), gti 180 calipers on rear

Suspension yet to be decided

Wheels to be decided but most likely 16 or 17 with R888 rubber.

MS management

6 point cage with harness bar and door bars

1 seat, no dash, fire extinguisher and a small control panel. Probably stack dash if funds stretch, or a coupe of small gauges for temp and revs.

Swirl pot and external pump.

PC windows and no door internals or front lights etc.

 

This is the car that will become a new toy.

 

post-6753-0-27347900-1436213378_thumb.jpg

post-6753-0-23808400-1436213390_thumb.jpg

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johniban

Looks interesting!

 

Have you already started on fitting the gti6 lump? i thought most people in the racing scene preferred the 138 engine that came in the gti for tune-ability?

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Richie-Van-GTi

Not started fitting the lump yet as its having some work done prior to fitting. I have a complete xsi engine and box though which will get dropped in for measuring up and making mounts etc till the 6 lump is built. From what ive researched the ew lumps are lighter and do have good tuneability but both engines tend to hit the same kind of peaks before major momey is spent. Ive opted this route as the extra few kg wont make a huge difference to me but the reduced cost will. Also I have plenty of experience working with the XU lumps. Plus its different. Havent known many 206 with a 6 lump

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calvinhorse

Excellent! Watching with interest, always wanted to see a fast 206

 

Have you had one before? are they any good?

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aldworth33

Do you know how well the itb's will fit? Will it need a manifold like in the 205 or will it be one like in the 306?

 

Good luck I'll be watching your progress :)

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wicked

Interesting project... Given the form factor of the engine bay I'm curious how this will end up.

 

Maybe first start on this list:

305mm 4 pots up front (406 discs with CL500 brembo calipers), gti 180 calipers on rear

Suspension yet to be decided

Wheels to be decided but most likely 16 or 17 with R888 rubber.

MS management

6 point cage with harness bar and door bars

1 seat, no dash, fire extinguisher and a small control panel. Probably stack dash if funds stretch, or a coupe of small gauges for temp and revs.

Swirl pot and external pump.

PC windows and no door internals or front lights etc.

 

And take it to the track and get the suspension right.

 

For the same money you want to throw at the gti6 engine, you'll get the ew working on the same level.

Fitting PC windows for weight and choosing a gti6 over an ew engine sounds also contradicting....

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Richie-Van-GTi

Manifold will have to be a custom job. Lickily I work in a place with plenty of equipment.☺

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Anthony

the only real hurdle is the top mount and downpipe which are not overly difficult.

I think the top mount might fit if you use a Ph2 Xsara VTS item.

 

Never tried it, but logicially Ph2 Xsara's were available with EW engines so presumably the top mount on the Xsara shell is in the right place for an EW, hence they used a top mount arm on the XU's. Worth looking into before trying to fab up something.

 

I don't have one to hand to measure, but the Ph2 top mount arm is offset the opposite way to a Ph1/GTi-6 arm and effectively pushes the engine backwards about 3" in the engine bay compared to the 306 sourced arm.

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rallyeash

Excellent! Watching with interest, always wanted to see a fast 206

 

Have you had one before? are they any good?

 

Look up Tony Dolley's orange 206...

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rallyeash

I know everyone will say why a 6 instead of a 180 motor, my answer is why not. I know the engines, I know whats available and the only real hurdle is the top mount and downpipe which are not overly difficult. Spec will be as follows

 

 

 

I think you will be better off with an EW... The results you'll achieve will be better, lighter engine = faster

 

Whats available for XU is still available for EW. Read Sandy's embrace the EW thread. Its worth reading.

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welshpug

yep, totally Echo Ash's post, certainly not free from its flaws but I think a better starting point given the shell youve chosen, much more opff the shelf parts availab le for that combination which will aid the budget.

 

a cheap 138 engine on bodies will give as much power as a standard 6 on bodies but more torque.

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Tom Fenton

I know not a lot about them, but what are the 180 engines like power wise if put on bodies with a good ECU that can control the VVC?

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welshpug

similar results to the 138 I believe, 5-10 bhp in it at the most.

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calvinhorse

I'm staying on the fence engine wise.. But ffs don't use cable gear shift if you want a fast car, f'in aweful

 

 

Cheers ash, I'll look him up

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welshpug

Satchell do a shifter for the 206 :D

 

206satchshift.jpg

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Richie-Van-GTi

Damn you Welshpug. I was avoiding looking at these kits as I am too tempted by them. Especually as it solves a headache straight off.

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aldworth33

I saw one person ask if they were worth the money and about 15 people replied saying a satch shift is one of the best mods you can make to a track or rally pug

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Richie-Van-GTi

Just went to.order the kit and its out of stock. Messaged colin on facebook so will await reply to see if he will make another

Edited by Richie-Van-GTi
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aldworth33

Try kamracing. I saw a 140ps ew on eBay for 160quid, cams pistons, itb's and management will all be similar to xu and you'll end up with a lighter engine with similar or better power and it's actually made to fit the car your doing. Think it's a no brainer really, as said read the ew thread as it's pretty in depth and notes all the pro's of the engine

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Richie-Van-GTi

Not interested in doing an EW. I know all the pros and cons. Read all the posts etc etc. I wanted something different to the norm but still familiar to me. The weight difference is not as large as everyone thinks and as already said power is not much different pound for pound on mods. I dont want to sound ungrateful to the advice but the engine choice is made☺

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rallyeash

You can definantly run XU with regs?

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Sandy

45mm bodies minimum, 40s will be restrictive and if you can't get driveability on 45s, it's not the bodies that are the problem!

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Richie-Van-GTi

You can definantly run XU with regs?

Yes as long as engine from same manufacturer its fine.

45mm bodies minimum, 40s will be restrictive and if you can't get driveability on 45s, it's not the bodies that are the problem!

I will look for some 45's then. Ive always found the throttle to be like an on off switch on ones I drove on 45's. Was aiming for more progressive pedal but as you say it could be other factors.

Ps are you still at satchells? Have been emailing ref the satchshift

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Richie-Van-GTi

Larger TB's ordered :D

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welshpug

the throttle behaviour is largely mapping and initial setup, also depends on the pedal and quadrant used, also wouldn't help if particularly aggressive cams were used and a snatchy clutch.

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