Jenvey Problems

[welshpug 1,626]

20150411_102736 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

[timoth123 37 1 Cars]

So is that a LH or RH?

 

Never mind, just read your post above. Thanks Mei

Edited April 11, 2015 by timoth123

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

WP would have you used to angle the cable on the bottom of the stop bracket? i see people use v brake noodles but i cant work out how they stay in place as they don't have a threaded end

[welshpug 1,626]

I used an m6 rivnut and a threaded barrel adjuster then a 90° v-brake noodle, same as bunging the outer cable straight onto the adjuster but much less drag from trying to get it through a tight radius.

 

the return spring on the bodies holds everything in place, theres no tension in my cable but no slack, its just right or I wouldnt get full throttle with the zx pedal. you could have 5-6 mm of slack and the cable end / noodle would not dislocate

[timoth123 37 1 Cars]

Thought I'd add this little bit of info....

 

This is what Jenvey offered me when I asked for a PQ2, they needed to know LH or RH.

 

 

Defo not what Jorg had, so sent them his pic (hope you don't mind mate) and they came back with this. Incidentally it looks like there's a longer arm available for it, the one with the p clip type thing on. Asked what that parnt number is, waiting to hear back.

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

As it happens.. looking a Mei's lever its on the oposite bank of bodies to mine,

 

think im just going to bite the bullet and get the propper llinkage

[welshpug 1,626]

mine are upside down and the picture is from above, though if you have a satchell inlet then it'll be the same.

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

Think ive worked it out now, my lever is on the left side from looking at the car above the bodies i got the cable stop just need to make up a blate to hold it, should be fine.

 

WP i was speaking to spoox about some bits and they asked out of interest what inlet i had.. i showed them a pic and and they said it was the most horrendous thing they ever seen.. upside down throttle bodies, they couldn't work out why i had fitted them like that.. said it will be really bad for performance as the injector will be spraying at the wall of the manifold rather than at the back of the valve,

 

So now im second guessing the satchell inlet but should i be second guessing it? as ive seen a few people have good results with them?

[Anthony 1,000]

I would be inclined to trust the proven results of the Satchell manifolds personally...

[welshpug 1,626]

indeed, which ones have a proven track record with producing well rounded pug engines?

 

why the hell were you talking to them anyway?!

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

They have a very good price on omex ecus!

[jorg 11]

any updates on this?

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

ive not been down the garage in a long time due to other hobbies but ive sorted it with other peoples ideas just extending the bar

[Sandy 189]

Colin will make the manifolds with the bodies the normal way up if you wish, but the reason I switched to mounting these upside down, is through my development. The injectors are nowhere near able to point at the back of the valve with a manifold of that length and with them mounted above, the fuel puddles on the floor of the manifold, which is clearly evident from the staining you get and inconsistent transient enrichment response. With the injectors mounted below, there's rarely any staining at all and transient enrichment is much smoother and cleaner. You can also use injectors in the OE location with these manifolds if you wish, or twin locations whhich gives the best of both worlds with staged injectors (which the OMEX 600 doesn't do, one of the reasons I favour the DTA S40). The aren't many people who operate such a tight development loop between manufacturing and mapping as I/we do, so the reasons why things are done a certain way, might not be understood.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Sandy

[rallyeash 155]

Think ive worked it out now, my lever is on the left side from looking at the car above the bodies i got the cable stop just need to make up a blate to hold it, should be fine.

 

WP i was speaking to spoox about some bits and they asked out of interest what inlet i had.. i showed them a pic and and they said it was the most horrendous thing they ever seen.. upside down throttle bodies, they couldn't work out why i had fitted them like that.. said it will be really bad for performance as the injector will be spraying at the wall of the manifold rather than at the back of the valve,

 

So now im second guessing the satchell inlet but should i be second guessing it? as ive seen a few people have good results with them?

 

Don't you think it's a bit of a coincidence them asking 'what inlet'. A few years ago you'd pretty much only have an option of the Jenvey/Longman one, so they clearly know there is now this design out there.

 

Imo it was probably a way to start a bit of slagging...

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

ill see if i can copy and paste the convo i had with them..

 

i cant really comment on weather they were trying to slag another company off as i don't have that much knowledge of what is good and was isn't i just go with what advise i can from mainly on here

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

• ​

  • • Spoox Motorsport LTD

      Yes it does. Why would you turn them upside down john ? the injectors then send fuel against the walls of the inlet manifold and not onto the back of the valve for optimised fueling and valve cooling ? I dont know what a satchel inlet is - and we would never run jenveys upside down so i have no idea about the linkage system still working. I am sorry.
    • 

      4/14, 9:09am

      John Borkett

      Hi, I've been told it's the best inlet manifold to use for performance . It's made by Colin satchel. A lot of people seem to use them and gain good results. I had a shorter manifold previously but the trumpets wouldn't clear the bonnet

     

     

     

     

    Spoox Motorsport LTD

    Thats the weirdest thing i have ever seen ? why have you done that ?
  • 

    4/14, 9:33am

    John Borkett

    What do you mean ?

    Do you mean the body's being upside down ? This just how I've been advised the best way to fit them on these engines

    It's meant to have 8 injectors. Another 4 mounted in the inlet manifold where I currently have bungs but I don't really have the budget to run the omex 710 ecu
  • 

    4/14, 10:06am

    Spoox Motorsport LTD

    Why is the angle of the inlet so steep - thats terrible for flow. The injector angle is all wrong too. Why is it like that ? Why not run 8 injectors at the right angle ? the inlet manifold is awful and the injector angle is all wrong. Do you know how much money spent developing their inlet manifold and DCOE bodies ? and you have ignored it all and changed it. i just dont get it. How much power do you make like this. Sorry to be brutal but your never going to see healthy power figures like that.
  • 

    4/14, 10:09am

    Spoox Motorsport LTD
  • 

    4/14, 10:10am

    Spoox Motorsport LTD

    We got 242bhp and 190lbft out of this - with mild cams, standard blueprinted bottom end. With the longman / jenvey inlet and DCOE's the way they were designed to be run. Are you looking to exceed this ?

    Im sorry john but i think whoever has been advising you has made some serious errors.
  • 

    4/14, 10:14am

    John Borkett

    Hi I haven't had it running yet, I need to get an ECu from you guys on pay day not really looked into it much it's not a competition car, but I'd like to see some good power from it read into the jenvey inlets or seen much on them. I can't comment on it really as I have no experience with it yet.
  • 

    4/14, 10:15am

    Spoox Motorsport LTD

    If you need 8 injector setup there is so many better, cheaper more effective ways of doing it than like this, plus no matter how many injectors you run they have to be pointing into the inlet port, otherwise you will get droplets rather than atomised fuelling. Droplets do not burn anywhere near as well as a mist.

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

  Spoox Motorsport LTD

  the manifold you have is shorter than a jenvey / longman one ?
• 

  4/14, 11:05am

  John Borkett

  I thought it was longer
• 

  4/14, 11:41am

  Spoox Motorsport LTD

  looks visibly shorter to me in the image you sent us.

  ​
• 

  4/14, 12:26pm

  Spoox Motorsport LTD

  what a shame - i hope you didnt spen too much money on these parts.
• 

  4/14, 12:26pm

  John Borkett

  Inlet was about £200!
• 

  4/14, 1:25pm

  Spoox Motorsport LTD

  Bloody hell john ! i cant believe you would pay more for something knocked up in someones garage than a proper cast developed manifold from jenvey. I am sorry to hear that. I hope you can get something sorted soon.
• 

  4/14, 1:27pm

  John Borkett

  It's meant to have been specifically made for this application and been tested Ect

   

  ‹
• 

  4/14, 2:13pm

  Spoox Motorsport LTD

  Thats so funny ! The angle looks horendous - i bet whoever this is selling these shows no raw data of the improvement or comparison against a jenvey inlet. The next bit is even better as the bodies are totally symetrical - so they are exactly the same profile whether they are fitted either way up ! I cannot believe people believe this kind of stuff.

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

• 

  4/15, 7:27am

  Spoox Motorsport LTD

  Oh my god it's a standard manifold with two flanges welded onto it !

  if you asked us to do that it would cost you around £50 + vat

The gaps between convo are pics i sent / they sent to me, wouldnt let me add them on

[rallyeash 155]

Well that's some interesting reading.

 

Spoox have an awful reputation.

 

A longman/jenvey setup with 4 injectors in the bodies are no way near pointing at the inlet valves...

 

Looks like he's just trying to slag off some competition.

Iirc Spoox have a Hill climb 205 which is In Colin's class... Although never heard of him...

[rallyeash 155]

Yup..

 

Spoox 205 also in our class...

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

Im not trying to provoke anything or stir anything up, just after useful advice

[welshpug 1,626]

sPOOx are not engine builders, Sandy is.

[GilesW 41]

I'm calling Spoox on Monday for an inlet with my £50............

[Sandy 189]

They know exactly who we are! That Curborough meeting in 2012, was the first time out for us with the 205 and it's come a long way since then, but find the results attached to see the difference in performance on that day. Companies that retail parts love to focus on the fabricated aspect of our work to try and diminish its seriousness, obviously looking at the external aspect and making no acknowledgment of the development and testing time I've put into the geometry of it to make it fit and perform, the fact Colin designs and CNC machines all the flanges, making jigs, the time that goes into ensuring the flanges align (to prevent balancing issues through the throttle movement) after welding, porting it to the shape; which is more progressive than you'd imagine from the external view and skimming both manifold faces. You can literally swap between these manifolds and the off the shelf Jenvey one, for a substantial mid range gain. It would be less time and hassle for Colin to simply sell the Jenvey (or Chadil) manifold; the point of bothering with this, is that it works better.

We don't buy in parts, looms etc and ship them; we develop and manufacture them ourselves, bespoke for the applications and often specific to customer's needs. That's a different league, a bit like the speed trap on the attachment.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Sandy

[welshpug 1,626]

Can't argue against official timing

 

mid range counts massively unless you have a Fast and Furious gearbox.